44 minutes ago, Daube said:

Bashing would be saying that all ICE cars are annoying to use at all times. It's not what i wrote, is it ?

OK, how about this:  Don't bash ANY ICE cars.  Talk about what's good about electric cars, avoid talking about what you consider bad about ICE cars.

We'll do the same for you.

Hook

I gotta comment on this one. 🙂

2 hours ago, Daube said:

I may not be as old as some people here

Don't worry about it.  Having younger people in a community is a good thing.  They often bring a joy, an enthusiasm, a fresh outlook that raises the tone of the whole community.

This helps some of us old farts (I'm 75).  It helps keep us young.

Hook

ICE-ism, EV-ism, AGE-ism - never thought this would be a thing in my lifetime 🤣

I will just continue to purchase 20 year old Honda's and keep them in the road for another 10 to 15 years, any time you can prevent a car for being produced in a factory somewhere that is a benefit, and I only drive around 12,000 Kilimeters a year because I live in an island and there is no where to drive to, this works best for me

21 hours ago, martin-w said:

He runs through the pros and cons, here...

Don’t’ get me wrong, I like the noise of old school ICE when it comes to auto racing, but for mundane daily routine stuff (to work, to store, to short trips), our EVs work perfectly for us in any weather.

I wanted to get a Silverado RST EV with 460 mi (real world range) but dealers are asking a crazy $91,000 … profit margins are insane (worse than nVidia Scalpers).  The EV truck has over 1000 less moving parts and requires next to no maintenance because of that and you want to charge me close to cost of a Diesel truck?  What sort of managed insanity is this?

42 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

our EVs work perfectly for us in any weather.

Except when it gets really cold.  If only there were a way to make winters warmer to be friendlier for EVs.

Hook

54 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

I wanted to get a Silverado RST EV with 460 mi (real world range) but dealers are asking a crazy $91,000

What's the used market like?

Not all of us can afford new vehicles. Out of all the vehicles I've owned, I've only bought two new.

Hook

7 hours ago, LHookins said:

OK, how about this:  Don't bash ANY ICE cars.  Talk about what's good about electric cars, avoid talking about what you consider bad about ICE cars.

We'll do the same for you.

Hook

How about that: avoid telling me what I should or shouldn't talk about ? 🙂

The forum rules already define which topics should be avoided in conversations here. Good and bad sides of various technologies are not in the list.

11 minutes ago, Daube said:

How about that: avoid telling me what I should or shouldn't talk about ? 🙂

The forum rules already define which topics should be avoided in conversations here. Good and bad sides of various technologies are not in the list.

Sure, no problem.

https://www.youtube.com/@mguytv/videos

Hook

6 hours ago, LHookins said:

Except when it gets really cold.

 

It's overstated. In the depths of Canadians winters they charge fine. Lower range, of course. There was some media nonsense a while back, where a charging station was defective causing slow charging and queues, weather was cold so those that dislike EV's blamed the cars, while a station down the street had zero issues.

Range loss varies a lot between cars, dependent on the model, whether it has pre-heating etc. 

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by martin-w

20 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Range loss varies a lot between cars, dependent on the model, whether it has pre-heating etc. 

I only knew about the range loss.  I don't know how bad it actually was.

I have to say my diesel was a little hesitant to start when the weather got below 20F.  But it did always start, and no range loss that I could detect. 🙂  It had a monster battery that could crank forever even in cold.

One guy who had a car like mine in Alaska would let it idle all night without problems. I saw another car that had a plug for a heater sticking out below the grill, so that was an option. The diesel M60 tank engines when I was in Germany were started several times during the night to keep them ready. Once we had to hook the radiator/heater hoses to a running jeep to warm a 2 1/2 ton truck diesel engine enough to get it started.

Seems like gasoline engines never had a problem.

I hope they eventually get the battery technology to the point that cold will never be a problem. Same with range.  Mr. Fusion, maybe.

Then there was Noel Wien in Alaska who drained the oil from the DC-3s(?) and took it inside at night to keep it warm. We have it too easy.

Hook

3 hours ago, LHookins said:

I have to say my diesel was a little hesitant to start when the weather got below 20F.  But it did always start, and no range loss that I could detect

No issues down to 12F here, Mt. Hood drive … winters are mild 19F … range reduction was about 12mi. Haven’t done anything colder, so actual experience.  Have been stuck in a snow that took me 7 hours to get home due to road blocks and vehicles stuck all over.

13 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

ICE-ism, EV-ism, AGE-ism - never thought this would be a thing in my lifetime 🤣

I will just continue to purchase 20 year old Honda's and keep them in the road for another 10 to 15 years, any time you can prevent a car for being produced in a factory somewhere that is a benefit, and I only drive around 12,000 Kilimeters a year because I live in an island and there is no where to drive to, this works best for me

I drive an '82 Capri RS 5.0 V8, T-5 trans, 8.8 3:55 gears for 43 yrs.  I bought it new.  No one touches my car; I do all the maintenance, and the parts are cheap.  Insurance is cheap, too.  Foxbodies rule!  New engines are still available for this Ford 302 Windsor.

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by TuFun

3 hours ago, LHookins said:

have to say my diesel was a little hesitant to start when the weather got below 20F.  But it did always start, and no range loss that I could detect. 🙂  It had a monster battery that could crank forever even in cold.

 

There's always range loss for any vehicle, in cold weather internal combustion, too. Efficency is lower and of course, air con or heating is up high. 

"The AC compressor, powered by the engine, adds extra load, requiring more fuel to be burned to maintain the engine's power. This can lead to a decrease in fuel efficiency, potentially reducing range by 3% to 20%, depending on driving conditions and the specific vehicle."

 

3 hours ago, LHookins said:

hope they eventually get the battery technology to the point that cold will never be a problem. Same with range. 

 

Cold isn't a problem. And range in cold weather isn't a "problem" as such, it's just lower. Not an issue unless you need max range capability for some reason.

I recall that range loss is around 10% in very cold weather. In extreme conditions 20% or more. But as said, it depends if you have a decent EV or a cheapo. 

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by martin-w

3 hours ago, LHookins said:

 

Seems like gasoline engines never had a problem.

 

As long as your antifreeze is maintained. 😄

There are hundreds of videos on Youtube from folks who regret buying an EV, as well as others who honestly and objectively discuss their pros and cons.  One can judge for themselves. 

Hybrid vehicles make the most sense right now IMO, although there is certainly nothing wrong with a good ole ICE vehicle or pure electric - whatever you prefer.  That's the beauty of freedom and the free market, IE that people can and will choose what they want, not what they're forced to get by some jackboot authority.  The market will determine which vehicles are the most successful.

There are other negative aspects of EVs such as massively increased mining for all the battery materials, much of it in poor countries using child labor and with nonexistent environmental or health regulations, but, hey, it's not in your backyard, right? 

Dave