10 minutes ago, Rodster said:

Most users will not go thru the trouble of adding additional pieces to X-Plane when they have to do ZERO with MSFS

I agree with most of what you said apart from this. MSFS has a bustling addon market, and I very much doubt anybody uses it out of the box with no addons. For starters its ATC and AI is a mess and requires addons. And then you get to its airports, well, that's a whole new rabbit hole of addons that are required if one wants to simulate any kind of real life flight. So although MSFS scenery out of the box is indeed a marvel, it still doesn't negate the fact that it still requires addons, a point that people tend to either forget or turn a blind eye to. 

39 minutes ago, Rodster said:

Graphically, out of the box, Microsoft's product looks insane

This is the kicker - many will never see what XP12 is capable of because they will get hooked on MSFS within seconds.

 

40 minutes ago, Rodster said:

The other problem I have with X-Plane is performance. I can get near 60FPS in MSFS 2020/24 with an RTX 3080 and a few graphic tweaks and it still looks incredible.

I get a very smooth 60 in XP12 by using Lossless scaling, and that is with many settings at maximum.  MSFS2024 is very smooth so no way I would have entertained XP12 if it couldn't give me the same.

 

42 minutes ago, Rodster said:

So X-Plane has more on it's plate besides graphics to make itself more appealing to a wider audience than just pretty life like graphics.

I am dropping MSFS 2024 for XP12 because the graphics are more incredible to my eyes than MSFS. Sure, some elements in XP12 need work, but the overall graphic experience is better in XP12 (by using the Map Enhancement Tool for satellite imagery).  The photo realistic clouds, far better visibility effects and the sunset/sunrise/night environment leaving MSFS standing.

32 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I agree with most of what you said apart from this. MSFS has a bustling addon market, and I very much doubt anybody uses it out of the box with no addons. For starters its ATC and AI is a mess and requires addons. And then you get to its airports, well, that's a whole new rabbit hole of addons that are required if one wants to simulate any kind of real life flight. So although MSFS scenery out of the box is indeed a marvel, it still doesn't negate the fact that it still requires addons, a point that people tend to either forget or turn a blind eye to. 

I was referring to out of the box experience for people who are gamers first and foremost and have dabbled in flight sims.

1 minute ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I am dropping MSFS 2024 for XP12 because the graphics are more incredible to my eyes than MSFS. Sure, some elements in XP12 need work, but the overall graphic experience is better in XP12 (by using the Map Enhancement Tool for satellite imagery).  The photo realistic clouds, far better visibility effects and the sunset/sunrise/night environment leaving MSFS standing.

I'm glad XP12 works for you !

2 hours ago, Rodster said:

from Luminar

That’s a nice one 😃

2 hours ago, Rodster said:

I had suggested on the Steam forums that the X-Plane team should consider purchasing a 3D mapping license from Microsoft, Google, Apple to make their flight sim look more appealing.

They probably have never ever thought about that great idea. More seriously, have you checked how much that would cost for the whole world? A little hint: this would result in costs of a few hundreds to thousand dollars. Per user. And per year.

2 hours ago, Rodster said:

MSFS allows people to easily create a flight plan from one location to the next by zooming in select a runway, zoom out and find another airport on the map. The X-Plane User Interface is basically the same since XP10. it is barebones.

That’s where the difference is: XP is more for users who also know how they have to create a flightplan in real. In a real aircraft you don’t have such functions who are pretty unrealistic and more gamey in my opinion.

The user interface of XP is very good and I am happy they haven’t changed it too much from XP11. So it’s one of the strength. MSFS-user-interface is being pretty criticized by users and is therefore more of a weak-point.

I don’t think LR should copy everything from other sims, otherwise I don’t see why someone would use another sim (to have everything exactly like he is used to have in the sim he is used to the most; it would make no sense having 2 products offering the exact same thing and you don’t generate success by copying everything). If a users values gamey stuff more, MSFS will suits him the best. If he values core-aviation more, XP offers more.

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by Franz007

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

This is the kicker - many will never see what XP12 is capable of because they will get hooked on MSFS within seconds.

 

I get a very smooth 60 in XP12 by using Lossless scaling, and that is with many settings at maximum.  MSFS2024 is very smooth so no way I would have entertained XP12 if it couldn't give me the same.

 

I am dropping MSFS 2024 for XP12 because the graphics are more incredible to my eyes than MSFS. Sure, some elements in XP12 need work, but the overall graphic experience is better in XP12 (by using the Map Enhancement Tool for satellite imagery).  The photo realistic clouds, far better visibility effects and the sunset/sunrise/night environment leaving MSFS standing.

I just got lossless scaling. I assume you deselect "scale"? If I use the scale option it magnifies the screen.

Lastly, you are not running MSFS at all? It is paid for and I assume still on your computer.

11 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

I just got lossless scaling. I assume you deselect "scale"?

Correct, I do not use the scale option.

 

11 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Lastly, you are not running MSFS at all?

It is installed and running fine, but for the past week I haven't used it ☺️

31 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

I just got lossless scaling. I assume you deselect "scale"? If I use the scale option it magnifies the screen.

Lastly, you are not running MSFS at all? It is paid for and I assume still on your computer.

I created a whole setup guide for lossless scaling. So many variables. 

30 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I created a whole setup guide for lossless scaling. So many variables. 

Oh wow! How to I get this? Is it on Youtube?

On 5/25/2025 at 1:58 PM, alanw2005 said:

I find that in MSFS 2020 and 2024, it feels like you never have to touch the rudder pedals once you leave the ground when flying GA and not in crosswind landing. With XP-12, the turn coordinator dial is a new found friend. Set MSFS 2024 to max realism and then fly the C172 in both sims. Easy to slip and skid in XP-12 if you don't work the rudder pedals. 

Perhaps it's the Default planes in MSFS...

I took the Black Square Turbine Duke out over the weekend, and let me tell you, coordinated turns with rudder and stick are absolutely required. Same with JF Arrows, FSR500, et al.

Anyhoo...this isn't meant to be a sim-bashing exercise (e.g., I spent most of my flying time in XP v12 this weekend), but rather some comparative clarifications. 👍

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Perhaps it's the Default planes in MSFS...

I took the Black Square Turbine Duke out over the weekend, and let me tell you, coordinated turns with rudder and stick are absolutely required. Same with JF Arrows, FSR500, et al.

Anyhoo...this isn't meant to be a sim-bashing exercise (e.g., I spent most of my flying time in XP v12 this weekend), but rather some comparative clarifications. 👍

Yes, I have read lots of good reviews and have seen the positive feedback on the Black Square products. Will have to buy one.

32 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Yes, I have read lots of good reviews and have seen the positive feedback on the Black Square products. Will have to buy one.

I just recently got the Turbine, after putting it off for quite awhile.

But a sale came up, I love well crafted turboprops, and it's one of the exceedingly rare add-ons where I've never seen a negative review.

So I took a chance, and it's been a genuine pleasure that lives up to its promises.

6 hours ago, Rodster said:

My sense is that the X-Plane team isn't worried about that as they cater to

I guess you have not checked out there road map. They havnt got to the optimization but yet. Really stupid to try do 5 things at once be impossible to trouble shoot. For instance there is an issue with taskbar on mac in full screen. They mentioned they had 2 guys spend a whole day on it, still cant figure out why it doesnt hide. It should according to spec.

8 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Correct, I do not use the scale option.

 

Lossless scaling is pretty awesome. 
 

Edited May 28, 20251 yr by alanw2005

On 5/25/2025 at 3:15 AM, Greazer said:

After 30 years of X Plane development, and still there are no Cumulus clouds. Not good.

Crossing the English Channel from France to the UK.  I'm pretty sure these are not only Cumulus clouds, but probably the best cumulus clouds I have ever seen in a flight sim.  Check out the cloud shadows.