2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Map Enhancement tool, Global Forests and Simheaven. These need configuring to work together well.  I have an HDR display, so initially XP12 looked poor, but after tuning the lighting, colours and turning on AutoHDR, the display came to life. 

Give orbx true earth a shot for GB too, it’s great. As is maps2xplane stuff

2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Map Enhancement tool, Global Forests and Simheaven. These need configuring to work together well.  I have an HDR display, so initially XP12 looked poor, but after tuning the lighting, colours and turning on AutoHDR, the display came to life. 

Sorry wrong info, further experimentation needed. 

Edited May 24, 20251 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

4 hours ago, JETPETER2 said:

But the endless smog, haze, anti aliasing issues, and poor performance is a killer... I still use it and have loved it but they can't catch up.... hmmmm

I'm probably blessed by my age since I honestly don't get affected by the AA glitches due to my close vision "shortage" 😁

Then regarding performance since I fix my FPS at 30 xp12 and MSFS 2024 are exactly equal smoothness wise...

Finally, in terms of functionality inside the cockpit, things like the rather disfunctional popup instruments in fs2024 are so inferior to the instrument popups in xp12, that its night and day for me... I don't use VR.

Edited May 24, 20251 yr by jcomm

2 hours ago, Litjan said:

if you can´t muster the curiosity, intelligence and staying power to push through this first hour or two - flying realistically portrayed aircraft is probably not something you would enjoy in the long run, anyway. Imagine, X-Plane even has a manual that people are expected to - gasp!! - read!!

This statement could not be further from the truth. First impressions are everything. It doesn't matter if you are selling an add-on plane, a new car, a new TV, or any other product. Every successful company knows that once customers are gone, they may never come back. It is up to Laminar Research to ensure X-Plane wows you on your first try. The blame should never be on the customer to scour the net to figure things out. A technical writing course emphasizes that you need simple, clear, concise instructions for the customer. If there are some additional configurations required, Laminar should provide easy-to-follow instructions. Time is money, and most customers don't have the patience if there is an alternative product. It has nothing to do with curiosity or intelligence. 

3 minutes ago, brinx said:

It is up to Laminar Research to ensure X-Plane wows you on your first try.

Just like msfs2024 did at launch? 👀😬

3 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

This is the one area I feel is overdone.  MSFS is the complete opposite with not enough!

Yeah, XP CAVOK really...isn't. Or perhaps it's minimums.

1 minute ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Just like msfs2024 did at launch? 👀😬

Yes. It applies to every company, whether it is Laminar Research, Microsoft, Boeing, or Airbus. It's just business 101: First impressions are everything. 

The company should provide clear, easy-to-follow instructions if additional steps are required.

The other user implied that a customer's lack of patience says something about their intelligence if they don't want to waste a day piecing together instructions from across the web. 

1 hour ago, brinx said:

It has nothing to do with curiosity or intelligence

You inaccurately conflated patience and intelligence in Jan's comment. I edited your statement to be correct. Intelligence is not the consideration here. It is indeed a lack of patience and curiosity. The xbox demographic tends to be short on both of those quantities for this particular hobby.

 

45 minutes ago, brinx said:

First impressions are everything

Have you seen x-plane.com from a decade+ ago? Oh my. Austin didn't give a hoot about 'pretty'. And XP sales still grew. It's as if you think he's hoping to run for POTUS or similar and his only path forward is XP revenue.

The demographic you are forgetting is the one for whom money has now generated time (retirees/pensioners). They do frequently come back and are often willing to dig through the muck of internet advice to achieve their computer-based desires.

Edited May 24, 20251 yr by blingthinger

1 hour ago, brinx said:

This statement could not be further from the truth. First impressions are everything. It doesn't matter if you are selling an add-on plane, a new car, a new TV, or any other product. Every successful company knows that once customers are gone, they may never come back. It is up to Laminar Research to ensure X-Plane wows you on your first try. The blame should never be on the customer to scour the net to figure things out. A technical writing course emphasizes that you need simple, clear, concise instructions for the customer. If there are some additional configurations required, Laminar should provide easy-to-follow instructions. Time is money, and most customers don't have the patience if there is an alternative product. It has nothing to do with curiosity or intelligence. 

That is true not only for how it looks but also how it works, meaning for how you want to use a simulation-tool, as for example how planes fly (inertia, feeling etc.). In that area XP offers a high standard of simulating aviation, that's why it has stayed as successfull as it is. The visual quality is only a part of the whole. And if someone give up after 20 minutes just because of how it looks, then well, he may not be the main audience that Laminar wants to adress. So it's a good filter to be sure having the most passionate aviation-fans who value more than just graphics.

Bit like those first timers, never flown a plane before, first thing they try fly is the most complex plane they can, that give up because they have no clue where the battery switch is. Its a flight Sim not a game, and no im not here to start that again. Most games you play you simply jump, run and shoot. Not that complicated.

I'm on day four of my XP12 test and to say I'm almost speechless is true!  I thought AutoHDR was working but no.  Advice from @Ianrivaldosmith means it is now working and it is spectacular! I just flew over Southern California at different times of day.  An hour before sunset low clouds rolling in from the sea and mid level clouds up high. 

MSFS cannot produce what I am seeing. Clouds look real, especially seeing it in HDR.  The sun illuminating the ground and mountains through the haze is magical.  Sure, in its beta form there are some glitches, but they don't take away from the experience.  Just four days ago I thought I would be uninstalling XP12, but now I am amazed.

Sure, I can look an an individual feature and say MSFS does that better, but as a whole it blows me away.

... and with Simheaven the scenery is more accurate than the one in the 'competitor' 😉, as I have shown here:

It shows churches where in real life are churces, it shows gas stations where there are ..., solar cells, greenhouses, supermarkets, kindergardens, even electrical substations and low voltage power lines, bus stops, radio masts, sheds, etc. whereas the competitor only shows generic brownish buildings (where there isn't PG or with PG off).

After 30 years of X Plane development, and still there are no Cumulus clouds. Not good.

Well, I think we are coming back to what we established a million times before - the choice of simulators depends on personal preference and what you are looking for when using it.

Edited May 25, 20251 yr by Litjan

11 hours ago, brinx said:

First impressions are everything. It doesn't matter if you are selling an add-on plane, a new car, a new TV, or any other product.

 

I don´t want to get in a fight over this and will therefore ignore the "nothing could be further from the truth" instigation 😉. Maybe we can keep this thread civil enough to keep it from getting locked...hope springs eternally.

Yes, a good first impression is important, but it needs to be followed up by value in the product as well.

Laminar knows that the "onboarding process" could be better - especially for people that fire up the demo and then sit in the aircraft and wonder "now what?"

Some strides have been made in the past to address this (automatic joystick assignments, Austin´s first flight tutorials), but still a certain computer- and aviation savvyness is needed to enjoy it.

I personally (Laminar PR, if you read this, don´t blow a vessel) believe that LR should not make every sale they possibly can. I personally believe that there is also a moral side to a business transaction - and just pushing a product on someone, regardless of if he really needs or can use it ("he could sell refrigerators to the Innuit"), is not the ultimate goal of the business transaction - which should benefit both sides, not be at the expense of one side.

Edited May 25, 20251 yr by Litjan