How is the default flight model in your opinion? Horizon sim causes stutters for me so cant use it. I have read that 787 pilots have approved the flight model, but it seems kind of different after being used to pmdg737-800. I have no idea how 787-10 should feel, is it accurate? MSFS2020

I have moved this topic here because you are asking a very Sim specific question.

jon b is surely the most credited user of MSFS to answer your question ...

@jon b tagging you. 

After flying the 787-9 for over 5 years now I honestly still don’t know how it feels.I still feel disconnected from the aircraft and for the most part it’s just a case of putting one small green circle on the HUD inside the other green circle, I don’t feel I’m actually flying the thing , its completely soulless.

Maybe after a couple of decades of actually really properly flying a 747 that’s just me, but I’m not a fan of the 787.

I don’t fly the 787 in the sim for pleasure but mainly just for sim routine practice, I have to say the HUD is now very realistic so when using VR is a good aid to developing a good HUD scan rate.

I’ve not flown the 787 in sim for a while but from what I remember commenting  previously that I found it to be very spritely compared to the real aircraft.

Pitch and roll all feel ok, just the rate of climb seems way too high in the sim, perhaps I just need to load it full of payload and fuel and de rate the engines some more to make it more realistic.

The real 787 has a very poor rate of climb , especially at higher levels compared to what I was used to on the 74. 
 

On the 787 you’ll often be cleared up to your initial cruise altitude of say F370 only to get a call sometime later to stop the climb at F310 ,as the controller realises that the rate of climb has dropped way off and there’s no way your going to clear the crossing traffic they initially thought you would.

In short , it’s an aircraft built for accountants and airline managers, not for pilots, if you want one of those stick to the 777 or 747.

@jon b !!! Wise Words !!! 🙏

36 minutes ago, jon b said:

After flying the 787-9 for over 5 years now I honestly still don’t know how it feels.I still feel disconnected from the aircraft

Hi Jon, a bunch of us were assigned to the 787 for about a year. I had the same feeling about it. I thought I was losing my mind, and I felt exactly the same way. I couldn't think of better words about it, "soulless". I'm sorry to say, even though it was new, clean, and smelled good, I was happy to go back to the 747. Yeah, there is something about the 747 or the 777. Happy landings, Jon!

'Soulless' is about as nebulous a concept as there is.  Can you translate that concept into what led you to apply it to the 787?  Is it that it is too 'stable', too automated in effect that the pilot's role seems disconnected?  It does have the lowest fatality rate of all wide bodies even when adjusted for flight hours in service.

56 minutes ago, Noel said:

'Soulless' is about as nebulous a concept as there is.  Can you translate that concept into what led you to apply it to the 787?  Is it that it is too 'stable', too automated in effect that the pilot's role seems disconnected?  It does have the lowest fatality rate of all wide bodies even when adjusted for flight hours in service.

Yes, it can be explained, but the question would be which one did you fly in real life? Otherwise, it would be difficult to understand. I'm not trying to be wise here; the difference in the Asobo's dynamics is so off, and you would not know which is right or wrong. Jon can explain so well after 5 years of flying the bird. I found nothing wrong with automation, but a little piggy in performance. FBW is a hybrid; it's not a Boeing or an Airbus, lacking in feeling, it's in between.  The Airbus or Boeing guys will say, "WHY is it like that? 

3 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Yes, it can be explained, but the question would be which one did you fly in real life? Otherwise, it would be difficult to understand. I'm not trying to be wise here; the difference in the Asobo's dynamics is so off, and you would not know which is right or wrong. Jon can explain so well after 5 years of flying the bird. I found nothing wrong with automation, but a little piggy in performance. FBW is a hybrid; it's not a Boeing or an Airbus, lacking in feeling, it's in between.  The Airbus or Boeing guys will say, "WHY is it like that? 

Only curious about how the concept of 'soulless' applies.  It maybe implies it's not behaving like the RW thing.  Maybe your ref to gutlessness also dances around the nebulous concept of 'soulless'.  Thrust = Soul 

3 hours ago, jon b said:

In short , it’s an aircraft built for accountants and airline managers, not for pilots, if you want one of those stick to the 777 or 747.

She simply is a modern tubeliner, just like A350.  These aircraft are supposed to be easy to fly and be as cost effective as possible.

If you want to have fun flying as a pilot, stay with GA aircraf or join the airforce. 😉

Jon b explains it right there in his reply.

”After flying the 787-9 for over 5 years now I honestly still don’t know how it feels.I still feel disconnected from the aircraft and for the most part it’s just a case of putting one small green circle on the HUD inside the other green circle, I don’t feel I’m actually flying the thing”

In other words he doesn’t feel connected to the aircraft probably because he doesn’t get the feedback from the controls like from older jetliners and all the automation and fly by wire.  
 

Soulless like a dead body. 😂

I did a lot flights with 787's, the flight model is not realy bad but shure not the best - but it's OK for flying IMO .

cheers 😉

52 minutes ago, Farlis said:

If you want to have fun flying as a pilot, stay with GA aircraf or join the airforce. 😉

Yes, for sure we can have lots of fun with heavies where we need to manage weight, inertia, tight turn radius, complex patterns, flying between mountains, unusual high elevation airports, unusual wx patterns, etc. Some examples:

 

Princess Juliana International Airport

Toncontín International Airport

Paro Airport 

Madeira Airport 

Congonhas Airport 

Gibraltar International Airport 

Auckland International Airport

Bagram 

Kabul

Thule Air Base 

Phoenix Airfield (McMurdo Sound)

 

Just a few to name.

18 hours ago, Noel said:

It maybe implies it's not behaving like the RW thing.

No no, he’s saying the real world 787 is soulless .. not the sim one. He doesn’t like the actual real plane and prefers flying the 747 in real life. 
 

at least that’s how I read it.