Has anyone else noticed that the new PMDG 737 for MSFS 2024 sometimes makes a bit of a mess of the turn onto final approach? This seems to be even more evident with the -600. The PMDG 737 for Microsoft Flight Simulator has (IMO) always had a bit of an issue "overshooting" the turn for the final approach, but the -600 in particular seems to be doing this almost every time. In fact, I have just completed a quick flight in this aircraft at UK2000 EGGW Luton (I reinstalled this to test it again; not the best idea that I have ever had, but that is another story), and it made an absolute pig's ear of this turn. In fact, it executed it so badly, that I had to take manual control before I would normally do to get it back on track. It was performing a series of "S" turns that would not have looked out of place in a Space Shuttle re-entry scenario, and it did not look like it was going to recover at all.

I must admit to being rather puzzled by this. I assume that the UK2000 version of this airport is using the default ILS approach for runway 07, so it should be no different to any other airport (or the IniBuilds version of EGGW Luton). Whatever the case, I pressed the APP button when on a roughly 45 degree vector from the final approach path (the same process that I use for just about every other ILS approach to an airport in the simulator), so it should not have had any problem at all.

On a side note, I have also noticed that the aircraft has failed to capture the localiser signal at all during an ILS approach to runway 04 at IniBuilds EGSS London Stansted the last three times that I have been there. This probably has nothing whatsoever to do with the aircraft itself. I just want to know if anyone else has noticed this, or if it is an issue exclusive to my installation.

Finally, the -600 in MSFS 2024 also has a low engine vibration noise when on the ground. I do not recall hearing this in MSFS 2020, but it may be because of the new sound package. It may be perfectly authentic, but I would like to know for sure, as it does not seem to affect the -800 or -900 (possibly because the engines are further away from the cockpit)?

i have defintely seen this at several airports in the 738. it overshoots one way, then some crazy overshoot in the opposite direction to try to get back on track, lateral oscillation, like being in a car on ice. never had it not capture localiser though. 

This sounds similar to how the NGXu behaves in P3Dv5.3HF2.

To get around it I adjust the heading manually by 15° once the localiser indicator starts to move the another 15° when the indicator is close to the vertical. Radar Contact gives me a 30° intercept heading.

No such problems with the earlier NGX for v4.

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

the new PMDG 737 for MSFS 2024

Has the 737 been released yet? I thought it was only the 736, 738, and 739 so far.

With regard to the overshoots, no, I can't say I have observed this in MSFS 2020 (737) or 2024 (738). I fly the intercept at Flaps 5 speed, and it seems to work fine so far as I can tell. 

Edited March 13Mar 13 by jrw4
typo in model number

Maybe this is a matter of asking too much of the flight computer? I do know that the 737's flight path calculation is dependant on constant speed.

If you speed up or slow down during turns, then the calculated path will not be met.

16 minutes ago, jrw4 said:

I fly the intercept at Flaps 5 speed

The speed at which one flies should usually be depandant on the distance from the threshhold. Normally intercepts will be flown at over 15 miles out. By that distance 220 knots is usually flown but one can go down to clean speed. The reduction to Flaps 5 Speed comes at 10 miles.

Edited March 13Mar 13 by Farlis

1 hour ago, Fromage_Flippant said:

i have defintely seen this at several airports in the 738. it overshoots one way, then some crazy overshoot in the opposite direction to try to get back on track, lateral oscillation, like being in a car on ice. never had it not capture localiser though. 

I have not experience this yet, it normally intercepts the localizer at 15 degrees 15 miles out. I'm normally at 180 to 210 knots, flaps 5 

1 hour ago, Farlis said:

Maybe this is a matter of asking too much of the flight computer? I do know that the 737's flight path calculation is dependant on constant speed.

If you speed up or slow down during turns, then the calculated path will not be met.

The speed at which one flies should usually be depandant on the distance from the threshhold. Normally intercepts will be flown at over 15 miles out. By that distance 220 knots is usually flown but one can go down to clean speed. The reduction to Flaps 5 Speed comes at 10 miles.

Please don't take this the wrong way.

 

Where I disagree is that, even though this is a model flying on a PC, other developers' 737 or other airplane models don't show this problem. I partially agree that at certain speeds, the calculated path is somehow affected. There is a reason why SIDS or STARS below 10 K are limited to a max of 250 KTS or speed-restricted at lower speeds, and the calculations are dynamically adjusted accordingly. As you mentioned, the intercepts to the final are usually between 210 and 170 KTS, and the FMCs are designed not to overshoot or make S turns, etc. They just lock on the LOC or LNAV without any "dancing." All PMDG airplanes suffer from issues with the intercept logic or LNAV, and they either don't know how to fix them or don't want to. Such a shame.

Those computers no longer use steam-gauge technology, so you would not see overshoot situations like this. 

Edited March 13Mar 13 by LRBS

28 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Those computers no longer use steam-gauge technology, so you would not see overshoot situations like this. 

FSL Concorde captures the localiser perfectly at 190kts. Just as the real one did. Old technology still works. 😁

35 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

FSL Concorde captures the localiser perfectly at 190kts. Just as the real one did. Old technology still works. 😁

Yes, the beautiful Concord and the 747-300, despite using older technology, had a higher default intercept speed than earlier models. On the 747-300, the default was 190, as you mentioned, whereas the others had a default of 170. Surprisingly, they didn't "dance" like that. Wonderful machines indeed. 

I generally turn onto final approach at 170 knots in both the 737 and 777F.

15 miles out is pretty far out for an intercept unless ATC drags you out there for spacing.

There is no "computed course" for a localizer intercept.  If you're flying an RNP approach or joining an ILS in LNAV before switching to approach mode then yes; but if you're intercepting the localizer in VOR/loc or approach mode, then the intercept turn is purely based on the speed at which the localizer needle is moving.  So if you're closer in or flying faster, the intercept turn will need to be more abrupt, and if you're farther out or flying slower, it'll be gentler.

Course intercepts / tracking have never been PMDG's strong suit, in LNAV or approach mode.  I haven't tried their planes in 2024 but sounds like that hasn't changed.  Best you can do is just help them on with a shallower intercept or a slower speed.

My PMDG 744-400 (in P3Dv5.4) locks on perfectly every time, provided I have the correct frequency. VHHH confuses the built in database and the new frequencies have to be entered manually.

I really like fuel saving short ILS or visual. No problem 160knots in the 737 series. Typically 6nm

Michael Moe

21 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Course intercepts / tracking have never been PMDG's strong suit, in LNAV or approach mode.  I haven't tried their planes in 2024 but sounds like that hasn't changed.  Best you can do is just help them on with a shallower intercept or a slower speed.

The problem here is that the 45 degree angle at which I was approaching EGGW Luton in the -600 was significantly lower than the usual turn angle. In addition, my -600 is actually at 160 knots at this point (10 knots slower than the other 737s), so hardly breakneck speed. It just made a right old mess of the turn.

I will need to experiment a bit to see what happened here, but I have not experienced that problem in any of the PMDG 737s on the 07 approach at EGGW Luton prior to this occasion. I have the IniBuilds version of EGGW Luton installed again now, so I will test this particular approach again in the MSFS 2024 version of the -600 (as previously noted, I do not remember having the same issue when I used the MSFS 2020 version of the -600).

I can't say I have ever seen this. With 210kts I can easily even do a 90 degree angle intercept without noticeable overshooting