1 hour ago, vonmar said:

What was your state initially?

For example: Altitude hold 3000' , 220 kt, A/P On, A/T On and a New alt dialed?

I selected V/S, speed 220kt, altitude to 6000' before takeoff. At about 1200ft AGL turned A/P On and A/T On. Maybe it's a throttle calibration issue perhaps? After hitting TO/GA I do push the throttle all the way forward so maybe that's the issue.

3 minutes ago, Noel said:

I selected V/S, speed 220kt, altitude to 6000' before takeoff. At about 1200ft AGL turned A/P On and A/T On. Maybe it's a throttle calibration issue perhaps? After hitting TO/GA I do push the throttle all the way forward so maybe that's the issue.

Basically:

A/T should be Armed before Takeoff.

Throttles / spool up.

TO/GA (clickspot e.g.)

Then push the throttle all the way forward.

Edit:

"I selected V/S"

Did you also select a V/S (dialed in)?

Edited Tuesday at 08:53 PM1 day by vonmar

No. Not on takeoff or initial climb out. The point there is to get higher to improve fuel economy and as LBRS said, you’re not speed protected.

I do, however use VS in cruise when stepping for a few reasons — 1) doesn’t jam the power and create the g-load, waking up the guys in the back 2) fuel economy 3) reduces the possibility of getting a resolution advisory from climb rate/closure rate if there’s traffic above

1 hour ago, Noel said:

I selected V/S, speed 220kt, altitude to 6000' before takeoff. At about 1200ft AGL turned A/P On and A/T On. Maybe it's a throttle calibration issue perhaps? After hitting TO/GA I do push the throttle all the way forward so maybe that's the issue.

You are almost there doing what you want to do.

I recreated your situation.

I then tested a departure (edit, just a takeoff / no fms etc) using V/S and all ok in the 777 (apart form my tail strike).

Do not make your V/S selection before takeoff.

Wait until after your 1200’ AGl and cleaned up.

Edited Tuesday at 09:50 PM1 day by vonmar

6 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

There isn’t any real use for v/s in climb. VNAV all the way up.

I'm needing to use it for an artificial condition coming out of Self Loading Cargo. If I use VNAV the climb rate is considered too extreme so your score will get dinged some for that.

5 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Do not make your V/S selection before takeoff.

Thank you Vaughan. Do you mean don't activate the VS/FPS button, or don't enter a value?

4 minutes ago, Noel said:

I'm needing to use it for an artificial condition coming out of Self Loading Cargo. If I use VNAV the climb rate is considered too extreme so your score will get dinged some for that.

Well, that is new information (VNAV in use) not previously mentioned.

1 minute ago, Noel said:

Thank you Vaughan. Do you mean don't activate the VS/FPS button, or don't enter a value?

You are welcome.

Do not touch anything V/S per my previous post.

19 minutes ago, vonmar said:

You are welcome.

Do not touch anything V/S per my previous post.

Thanks again, problem solved :o)

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Thanks again, problem solved :o)

Noel,

You are welcome.

Glad to hear you got A/T with V/S working.

Good luck with your Self Loading Cargo.

8 hours ago, JYW said:

You would never use VS for climb in any airliner. FLC / IAS mode is always used (or VNAV which essentially uses FLC) as it provides speed protection against stall.

VS is used for descent.

I disagree with "never"--when departing lightweight, a full climb-power VNAV ascent will produce an uncomfortably high deck angle. A few 777 legs are short and therefore light, e.g. the short 1.5 hr Santiago, Chile to Buenos Aires leg Air France flies (flew?) before heading out on a long overwater leg to Paris.

We flew a lot of short, light legs in the Gulfstream IV and V, and for passenger comfort I typically flew the initial climb at 3000 fpm in V/S up to 10,000, then accelerated and climbed in VNAV the rest of the way.

2 hours ago, Noel said:

I'm needing to use it for an artificial condition coming out of Self Loading Cargo. If I use VNAV the climb rate is considered too extreme so your score will get dinged some for that.

Fair point! Makes sense.

From my work with Boeing pilots I learned that it's quite common to use V/S in the climb, especially in busy terminal areas with a level off where a high rate of closure to other traffic can produce nuisance Traffic Alerts that get everyone excited for the wrong reasons. The 777F/LR is a very powerful beast indeed and if it's light you'll be easily getting climb rates upwards of 6000fpm with an uncomfortably high deck angle, so that will probably be why your tracker is complaining.

I believe (and this is from memory, so don't take as gospel) that Ryanair have something like a 3-2-1 vertical speed policy which is your vertical speed must be no more than the altitude to level off - i.e with a 1000 feet to capture you need to be at 1000fpm or less, 2000 feet to capture no more than 2000fpm and 3000 feet to go 3000fpm or less.

For departure I'd be using VNAV so you get all the speed constraints etc respected and if you're sensitive to being donged points from your flight tracker, set climb thrust and acceleration to happen at 800 feet in page 2 of TAKEOFF REF and put in CLB-2 on the N1 LIMIT page. This reduced climb thrust will 'washout' during the climb and the aircraft will command the nominal climb thrust for the conditions, but it should keep you at a comfortable deck angle.

The 747 and 787/777 VNAV limits APFD level off commands for passenger comfort, it is not unusual to see altitude capture engage 2 or even 3 thousand feet below the selected altitude on an empty positioning 747.

Likewise FLCH SPD is self limiting for small changes of altitude.

The 787 flight crew training manual doesn’t specifically guide against the use of V/S in climb for passenger comfort, but instead advises VNAV & FLCH SPD can be used and there is “no need to use V/S.”

In the terminal area with traffic within 5 miles and 1500 ft of my level off and with a climb rate of 1000fpm or more I tend to bring in V/S to slow the closure and thus avoid tedious paperwork.

Edited to add, one technique we used on the 747 to avoid unpleasant deck angles on departure as Bob mentioned was to request a high speed climb ( not available in the US below 10k) Asking it to accelerate would bring the nose down.

I wish PMDG would hurry up with their 744, I miss the power and performance, the 787 ….has good pressurisation 😔

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by jon b

9 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

I disagree with "never"--when departing lightweight, a full climb-power VNAV ascent will produce an uncomfortably high deck angle. A few 777 legs are short and therefore light, e.g. the short 1.5 hr Santiago, Chile to Buenos Aires leg Air France flies (flew?) before heading out on a long overwater leg to Paris.

We flew a lot of short, light legs in the Gulfstream IV and V, and for passenger comfort I typically flew the initial climb at 3000 fpm in V/S up to 10,000, then accelerated and climbed in VNAV the rest of the way.

👍 VNAV aside, did you not climb in FLC/IAS mode? Where the speed could be set higher to prevent an uncomfortable climb rate, but while still providing stall protection?

You're right, 'never' is rarely the appropriate word in aviation. However, some of the posts here read as though VS and VNAV are the only options. I'm pretty sure every major airline SOP would have pilots using airspeed-based modes in the climb. I don't think I've ever seen a real-world airliner (or even large GA) on YouTube vids (or in real life) climbing out using VS. It is however something we (simmers) used to do in FS9/FSX, as there was no native FLC/IAS mode until MSFS 😄

I'm not challenging your statement, or experience, and 'never' was too extreme, but the vast, vast majority of airliner or large GA aircraft use airspeed-based FD/AP modes to climb. Exceptions would also include aircraft with older avionics that do not have a FLC/IAS mode (eg. old Sperry units but in GA also the King 140/150/225 and STEC units)/