Now that the dust has settled could I ask for your opinions on the Airsimmer A320? I am interested in buying this product and understand that this is just a watered down version of a much more complete product that will be released in the future - thats ok as I'm not really into systems simulation that much.Compared to Quality Wings 757 (which I own and love) would I find it disappointing?I would very much like your opinionsThanksJack

Jack,Before the knockers contribute on here, I have to tell you that the only version at the moment available is the basic version. It is a great simulation and the sounds are without equal. that said, it does have a few bugs still, which are being solved as I speak.The advanced version that I have, still in progress, hasn't recieved an update since last October when the focus centred on getting the basic version sorted out. If you purchase this, you must bear this in mind. I am sure that both versions will be finished eventually and the delays are due to the fact that nobody else has tackled the Airbus to the same level of accuracy that Airsimmer has done.It is their first simulation and hopefully not the last. They are determined to complete this and I 'think' they released the Basic version in order to finance their development.The downside is, there is no discount for upgrading to the advanced version when that comes available so your initial purchase is a done payment. It depends on how much your going to expect from the sim as to which version to go for.Good luck with whatever you decide.

Jack,Before the knockers contribute on here, I have to tell you that the only version at the moment available is the basic version. It is a great simulation and the sounds are without equal. that said, it does have a few bugs still, which are being solved as I speak.The advanced version that I have, still in progress, hasn't recieved an update since last October when the focus centred on getting the basic version sorted out. If you purchase this, you must bear this in mind. I am sure that both versions will be finished eventually and the delays are due to the fact that nobody else has tackled the Airbus to the same level of accuracy that Airsimmer has done.It is their first simulation and hopefully not the last. They are determined to complete this and I 'think' they released the Basic version in order to finance their development.The downside is, there is no discount for upgrading to the advanced version when that comes available so your initial purchase is a done payment. It depends on how much your going to expect from the sim as to which version to go for.Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks - I am aware that the only version available at the present time is the basic edition - I think that this is the one for me as I would prefer an aircraft I can jump into and fly rather than having to do master complex systems first.I have heard there are bugs with the aircaft - I am having trouble ascertaining the extent of these and would like to know more about how they would impact my flights..JackJack

Jack,Before the knockers contribute on here, I have to tell you that the only version at the moment available is the basic version. It is a great simulation and the sounds are without equal. that said, it does have a few bugs still, which are being solved as I speak.The advanced version that I have, still in progress, hasn't recieved an update since last October when the focus centred on getting the basic version sorted out. If you purchase this, you must bear this in mind. I am sure that both versions will be finished eventually and the delays are due to the fact that nobody else has tackled the Airbus to the same level of accuracy that Airsimmer has done.It is their first simulation and hopefully not the last. They are determined to complete this and I 'think' they released the Basic version in order to finance their development.The downside is, there is no discount for upgrading to the advanced version when that comes available so your initial purchase is a done payment. It depends on how much your going to expect from the sim as to which version to go for.Good luck with whatever you decide.

The fact that AirSimmer "released the Basic version in order to finance their development" indicates it was short of cash. There's no guarantee that it will release the final version but if you're not concerned about that it's no problem surely?

The fact that AirSimmer "released the Basic version in order to finance their development" indicates it was short of cash. There's no guarantee that it will release the final version but if you're not concerned about that it's no problem surely?

I was kind of worried when I started this thread that it would just devolve into a basic v advanced edition match. This really is not the basis of my question as I have pretty much made up my mind that the basic edition is the one that best suits my needs. I really want to know about how it flys etc?ThanksJack

the basic edition is the one that best suits my needs

Then wait till it is properly patched. What is being offered now is a waste of money.I'm not speaking from an advanced extended team member's perspecive, but as a customer who did purchase (and got a refund for) the 'basic version'.If 'basic' means for you 'only some basic things work as they should' then you can buy today.If, however, it means a 'well-made finished product with deliberately limited functions' - don't buy it.Go the the Airsimmer forum and do some reading.Just in case: that is my own justified opinion and I'm not going to argue about it.Just giving some advice.

Go the the Airsimmer forum and do some reading.

+100, everything you need to make a balanced assessment is easily accessible, even amongst the fires. Also, make sure to read the Avsim review - very instructive.

I have heard there are bugs with the aircaft - I am having trouble ascertaining the extent of these and would like to know more about how they would impact my flights..Jack

For me these are the issues I've found:1. Framerate fluctuations - You can start off a flight fine but over time performance is lost in FS9 as if there's a memory leak somewhere making landings horrible.2. Stuck throttle - You can get right up to the runway for takeoff and loose throttle control on your joystick/yoke. Pushing F2 or F3 solves the problem temporarily but just the same it's a problem.3. Autopilot is not as stable as it could be and for some it actually cuts off at critical stages of flight. Some it cuts off at cruising altitudeThe list goes on and on and like what was mentioned above go read the Airsimmer forums. I didn't find the add-on ready for prime time much less general use. I have since gone back to my trusty Feelthere Airbus Volume 1/2 series. With tweaks I've made to various things like VC eye-point position, induced drag for spoiler effectiveness, thrust rating based on data of the best performing engines offered for these models, etc., the Feelthere birds are very functional (not to mention time acceleration for those times I have little time. Time Acceleration is not possible with the Airsimmer Bus). Of course I would say glowing words about the Feelthere model but the fact of the matter is I didn't have much time with it during development so what's been produced I can't claim I had much part in. So things I would have added or changed came after I've had considerable time with it in much the same capacity as any perspective customer. The Basic Airsimmer model and the Feelthere model functions pretty much the same in terms of systems modeled. The MCDU is more involved in the Feelthere model versus the Airsimmer version. The main difference is eye candy at this point and better sounds (which in the case of Feelthere can be switched over for free one's here on Avsim). Eye candy currently comes at a cost which still has to be worked out. For those of us using FS9 FPS today should never be an issue, with this add-on it is. So like I said if one wants something that works and remotely represents the real Airbus A320 series in functionality, Feelthere is the best option out there right now hands down.

I was kind of worried when I started this thread that it would just devolve into a basic v advanced edition match. This really is not the basis of my question as I have pretty much made up my mind that the basic edition is the one that best suits my needs. I really want to know about how it flys etc?ThanksJack

I'm not trying to start a basic vs advanced match.By all acounts the basic version is buggy. Airsimmer are reported to be working on a patch. Given AirSimmer's lack of cash, I'd wait until the patch was released and found to be effective before buying. There's no guarantee that the patch will be released.

I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. If they ever get it patched to an acceptable level and it's been reviewed successfully then it might be worth getting. Their fans and developers love to sneer at the Feelthere/Wilco bus but I reckon it's coming back to bite them on the arse now. The Feelthere/Wilco with the new Marciano upgrade is still the best on the market.I feel sorry for the poor sods who bought into the beta testing scam (was it about 50 quid? bloody criminal!) but the warning signs were there even back then before they compromised and released a half made "basic model". Who knows what stunt they are going to pull next.Airscammer are a very bad joke and are descending further into farce as time goes by IMO. Cheers,Dave

I don't think calling them 'Airscammer' is entirely fair. They ran into development problems, possibly by setting their goals too high and maybe biting off more than they could chew. I really don't know what the issue is exactly as I'm not privy to what goes on behind their doors, nevertheless, I suspect it is more a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions, rather than a deliberate attempt to scam people, although I daresay it might not feel like that to some who have bought it. Whether they choose to recover some goodwill with a change in pricing strategy for those who've bought into some problems, should the hardcore version emerge intact, remains to be seen of course. This is the problem for potential developers, it's hard to come right out the door with a new development company and immediately start batting like you are PMDG, and good intentions are not enough to make that happen.The A320 does seem to be a bit of a poisoned chalice for FS developers, and one suspects that if it was easy to make a totally realistic one, I daresay someone would have done it by now, since it is obvious that a really good one would sell in droves. As it is, Airsimmer may still come good and I would like to hope they will. But if anyone has a legitimate gripe about them, it would be more helpful to point out what that gripe was, rather than submit to namecalling of the developer, even if one might feel like doing so.The Avsim review of it was very informative, and that is a good source of research for anyone who is considering it, which in my case I did, and decided not to buy it; a shame because I would really like a nice, realistic FS A320 (for either FS2004 or FSX, although preferably FSX). But that said, I've not totally closed the door on Airsimmer, if they do manage to get their 'full on' A320 out of the hangar in good shape, they'll have me as a customer, and I imagine many others too, so one would hope they have the momentum to know that 'if we build it, they will come'.In the meantime, it is encouraging to note that Aerosoft's forthcoming A320, which is initially aimed at being fairly 'lite', is supposedly slated for a later more realistic 'heavy' treatment, and one has to admit that being upfront about that as Aerosoft have, is likely to yield better goodwill than that which Airsimmer appear to have garnered from the promise of doing it the other way around and apparently dropping the ball in the process, necessitating the current state of affairs for them.There is a lot of nonsense talked about it being hard to do a fly by wire sim airliner - aircraft are all fly by wire when in FS, even the WW1 biplanes. And it is quite evidently not that hard to mimic the limited flight envelope of Airbus FBW either, as evidenced by CLS and Wilco, both of which do a creditable job at emulating it. Nevertheless, that does not mean making a realistic Airbus is easy; clearly, the real problem is all the complex PFD modes and systems, and getting those to work like the real deal, which let's not forget, the real Airbus manufacturers did not find easy either, but unfortunately, that is exactly the bit that hard core simmers are likely to want.Now if only someone can persuade EADS to make an FSX add on. Hmmm... where's that Toulouse telephone directory....Al

The Feelthere/Wilco with the new Marciano upgrade is still the best on the market.. Cheers,Dave

I checked your advise but, the Marciano upgrade cost's 95 EURO's! For that price you could buy two AS320's. Are you serious? :(

I don't think calling them 'Airscammer' is entirely fair. They ran into development problems, possibly by setting their goals too high and maybe biting off more than they could chew. I really don't know what the issue is exactly as I'm not privy to what goes on behind their doors, nevertheless, I suspect it is more a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions, rather than a deliberate attempt to scam people, although I daresay it might not feel like that to some who have bought it. Whether they choose to recover some goodwill with a change in pricing strategy for those who've bought into some problems, should the hardcore version emerge intact, remains to be seen of course. This is the problem for potential developers, it's hard to come right out the door with a new development company and immediately start batting like you are PMDG, and good intentions are not enough to make that happen.The A320 does seem to be a bit of a poisoned chalice for FS developers, and one suspects that if it was easy to make a totally realistic one, I daresay someone would have done it by now, since it is obvious that a really good one would sell in droves. As it is, Airsimmer may still come good and I would like to hope they will. But if anyone has a legitimate gripe about them, it would be more helpful to point out what that gripe was, rather than submit to namecalling of the developer, even if one might feel like doing so.The Avsim review of it was very informative, and that is a good source of research for anyone who is considering it, which in my case I did, and decided not to buy it; a shame because I would really like a nice, realistic FS A320 (for either FS2004 or FSX, although preferably FSX). But that said, I've not totally closed the door on Airsimmer, if they do manage to get their 'full on' A320 out of the hangar in good shape, they'll have me as a customer, and I imagine many others too, so one would hope they have the momentum to know that 'if we build it, they will come'.In the meantime, it is encouraging to note that Aerosoft's forthcoming A320, which is initially aimed at being fairly 'lite', is supposedly slated for a later more realistic 'heavy' treatment, and one has to admit that being upfront about that as Aerosoft have, is likely to yield better goodwill than that which Airsimmer appear to have garnered from the promise of doing it the other way around and apparently dropping the ball in the process, necessitating the current state of affairs for them.There is a lot of nonsense talked about it being hard to do a fly by wire sim airliner - aircraft are all fly by wire when in FS, even the WW1 biplanes. And it is quite evidently not that hard to mimic the limited flight envelope of Airbus FBW either, as evidenced by CLS and Wilco, both of which do a creditable job at emulating it. Nevertheless, that does not mean making a realistic Airbus is easy; clearly, the real problem is all the complex PFD modes and systems, and getting those to work like the real deal, which let's not forget, the real Airbus manufacturers did not find easy either, but unfortunately, that is exactly the bit that hard core simmers are likely to want.Now if only someone can persuade EADS to make an FSX add on. Hmmm... where's that Toulouse telephone directory....Al

Great post Al. Good reading too. ;)

To their credit, Airsimmer has always been clear about what you are 'buying', whether it was the so called Extended Team beta or Basic with bugs. The external model plus the a really excited user effect was too much for some people, and they blinded themselves to basic principles of commerce. Others went in eyes wide open to the risk but with a willingness to support the effort.Airsimmer has 'disappeared' before, only to return when least expected, let's see if they act any differently now that money has changed hands.

Thanks for your advice everyone - I think I too will step back and watch to see if there are any developments in Airsimmers product.In the meantime however I popped to my local PC World in Moorgate and found a copy of Wilco/Feelthere Airbus in their bargain bin (there were about 5/6 copies left if anyone wants one too) GB