quote[The idea to bring the technology behind Flight Simulator to the commercial market is not a new one. For over ten years Microsoft customers and partners have asked if they could use Flight Simulator technology for non-entertainment purposes. This would have been a violation of the End User License in Flight Simulator, however, so it was denied.]It seems that only NON entertainment use violates the EULA.

I see that you spent some time researching marketing / info about ESP and the idea behind ESP.Why not spend the time reading your FSX EULA?You CANNOT use FSX for the purpose you are intending too. You are trying to sell / rent the experience and that is in violation of the EULA. Its not my opinion. It is Microsoft's Legal position. In fact I just got off the phone with MS validating exactly what I am telling you. If you want to sell the Experience, buy ESP and you will have exactly what you need and I wish you great success! :( Regards,Jim Rhoads

Actually.....We (Flight1 Aviation Technologies) are one of the very few if any that you can obtain ESP from now, via our Object Code license agreement with Microsoft.Jim RhoadsFlight1 TechAnd you can have that interface with a product we have developed and will release very shortly called "ESP Free Flight"We restore the exact same FSX menu system interface that you are used to. Jim

Am I correct that this Flight 1 product will only be available for commercial use? What if I wanted to buy it and charge my dog $.01 for flights?

Am I correct that this Flight 1 product will only be available for commercial use? What if I wanted to buy it and charge my dog $.01 for flights?

I think you are confused about this.1. FSX - For entertainment purposes and non-commercial use. Buy it from Walmart, Amazon, E-bay, wherever...2. ESP - Essentially FSX but with a commercial use license. Charge money with it.... Use it for training, museums, experience, etc. The whole concept is that you will be using the platform to make money with it. You cannot do that with FSX but you can do it with ESP. Buy it from us. I won't be able to comment much more about this. I am packing a trailer and heading for Oshkosh!Jim

Jim, I understand, thank you. I will look into your product. Would it mean a complete re-install of your product, and would 3rd party add-ons such as scenery, aircraft etc, operate ok?

Jim, I understand, thank you. I will look into your product. Would it mean a complete re-install of your product, and would 3rd party add-ons such as scenery, aircraft etc, operate ok?

Man... I am not sure why this seems so confusing...It is not Our product! It is Microsoft's ESP. It is essentially FSX, so yes... all FSX compliant content should work. We simply have the licensing rights to sell ESP to you the end customer. If you are interested, you can contact Flight1 Aviation Technologies and receive more information about how to obtain ESP and what is involved.RegardsJim

I have just registered with your forum, so I will ask my questions there. Thanks again.

Any scenery, addons etc would have to be licensed for use in the manner you seek. I'm pretty certain they're not currently.So... if you want to use addons... be prepared to pay a significantly larger licensing fee for them, since you'll be making a profit off of them.

Think of ESP as an MS Product which builds the bridge and licenses base FSX technology for commercial use.As Jim stated, purchase the product which allows commercial license and away you go.We've been involved with Redbird for over a one and one half years and are glad to be able to participate.Look them up at Osh Kosh this coming week and check out Jims F1 booth as well. See ya there Jim. :(

Any scenery, addons etc would have to be licensed for use in the manner you seek. I'm pretty certain they're not currently.So... if you want to use addons... be prepared to pay a significantly larger licensing fee for them, since you'll be making a profit off of them.

Good point Ed. :(

Just to add a little more confusion to this; Lockheed Martin now owns the Intellectual Property rights (IP) now for ESP. I guess MS sold it to LMOC when they decided to get out of the simulation business last year. I think we are going to be hearing a lot more about Locheed's intentions soon enough I do believe.

Man... I am not sure why this seems so confusing...It is not Our product! It is Microsoft's ESP. It is essentially FSX, so yes... all FSX compliant content should work. We simply have the licensing rights to sell ESP to you the end customer. If you are interested, you can contact Flight1 Aviation Technologies and receive more information about how to obtain ESP and what is involved.RegardsJim

Read your FSX EULA. You know... that thing they make you read at the end of the installation?

What's that? :(

If he is using ESP in a commercial setting (asking money for a flight) than he is perfectly aligned with ESP. It doesn't matter if he is providing a flying whoopee cushion for fun. If he charges money to fly it in a commercial setting, he needs ESP. What he cannot do is charge money for the use of FSX in anyway which is licensed as an entertainment / non-commercial use product.JimRead your FSX EULA. You know... that thing they make you read at the end of the installation? :( The answer is because it is in violation of the End User License Agreement. You can do anything you want, but if Microsoft finds out about it, you will be talking to lawyers.Jim

I think what he can't do with ESP (Which it doesn't seem like he intends too) develop a flight sim to market for entertainment purposes. Charging for rides like you say I think is ok.

Interesting quote (below) from a forum member over at microsoft ESP development forums. If that's the case then they (Microsoft) are not going to be interested in taking little ole me to the high courts.However... the FSX EULA actually states that FSX can only be used for non-commercial purposes "except where sold with development tools" (or very similar wording), which to my mind is the SDK that comes with FSX Deluxe. About a year prior to ESP's announcement, I actually emailed MS and asked if I could use FSX for a commercial military/industrial project and MS UK contacted MS US and got back to me saying yes, I could. (I kept that email to cover my butt.)

Interesting quote (below) from a forum member over at microsoft ESP development forums. If that's the case then they (Microsoft) are not going to be interested in taking little ole me to the high courts.

It reminds me of the Dirty Harry movie."You got to ask yourself one question.... Do I feel lucky?"

Interesting quote (below) from a forum member over at microsoft ESP development forums. If that's the case then they (Microsoft) are not going to be interested in taking little ole me to the high courts.However... the FSX EULA actually states that FSX can only be used for non-commercial purposes "except where sold with development tools" (or very similar wording), which to my mind is the SDK that comes with FSX Deluxe. About a year prior to ESP's announcement, I actually emailed MS and asked if I could use FSX for a commercial military/industrial project and MS UK contacted MS US and got back to me saying yes, I could. (I kept that email to cover my butt.)

That's the clause that allows developers the ability to use the SDK (development tools) to make their 3rd party addons.

It reminds me of the Dirty Harry movie."You got to ask yourself one question.... Do I feel lucky?"

I see that on the side of Microsoft. You see, it depends on which court you are tried in. When I purchased FSX I was unable to view the EULA until I had opened the package, thus rendering the item non-returnable to the shop. Two very good point's were made over at windowsecrets.com which I have pasted below. The whole script is here http://www.windowssecrets.com/2010/02/04/0...e-one-in-effect If Microsoft truly considers the Windows EULA enforceable, you'd think the company would've taken at least one of the tens of millions of licensees to court. No doubt Microsoft has many reasons why it has avoided putting its putative contract to the test, but one in particular occurs to me. Imagine the consequences if a U.S. court found