Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

derianc

I want to join VATSIM but...

Recommended Posts

In response to how to respond to ATC and what is important, read back anything that is a clearance. Any instructions should be read back (interestingly, the altimeter setting is part of an altitude clearance, as it is the only way the controller can ensure that everyone is using the same reference for altitude). Information, such as traffic and winds, etc., do not need to be read back, unless you have been asked to sight the traffic.

Share this post


Link to post

For what it's worth, VATSIM's controllers are the most patient bunch of gents. Although the protocol is extremely realistic, no one gets in trouble for being a beginner.One suggestion is to listen in on real world ATC. There's lots of websites that stream ATC. Your ears and mind adjust to the pace and terminology relatively fast.VatsimTrack IRGood Yoke / PedalsGood Hardware______________A+ FS Immersion Best of luck.

Share this post


Link to post

Euroscope is much better in my opinion, and I think we should merge, but there will be conflicts between both training systems etc...But I would like to see a merge one day...VATAO?:PBack to topic : If you need help with VATSIM specific procedures, just ask, we're all happy to help out!

Share this post


Link to post
In response to how to respond to ATC and what is important, read back anything that is a clearance. Any instructions should be read back (interestingly, the altimeter setting is part of an altitude clearance, as it is the only way the controller can ensure that everyone is using the same reference for altitude). Information, such as traffic and winds, etc., do not need to be read back, unless you have been asked to sight the traffic.
The point about traffic is true, but the altimeter setting information is not that simple. It is not required to be read back per the 7110.65 and I don't recall it being mentioned in the FAR/AIM. All we really want to hear is that you got the altitude right.To be honest, radio frequency congestion is one of the biggest frustration of controllers online if they are busy. If I am working the center level and have several aircraft to pay attention to and issue instructions to, the last thing I need is to have someone read back more than I need them to read back. Most of the time, it's not too busy, so I will point it out to them very briefly that everything they said isn't necessary, just x, y and z.Two of the biggest examples of pilot-controller interaction errors are the following (VATSIM/online, not RW):#1[Aircraft gets handed off from another controller]"Good evening, DC Center [sic], Weedwhacker 123 with you 25NM northwest of Kessel VOR, Flight Level 220."Weedwhacker 123, Washington Center, roger. Position reports aren't necessary when you get handed off - just altitude - but thanks anyway. Desecend and maintain...#2[i send a 'contact me' request to the pilot flying IFR who is about to enter my boundary]"Washington Center, Weedwhacker 123 with you, FL360."Weedwhacker 123, Washington Center, good evening. Reset transponder, squawk 5642."[Pilot resets transponder and hits the IDENT button]Weedwhacker 123, IDENT isn't required unless specifically requested, but it's not a problem. Radar contact, 50NM south of the Wilmington VOR, FL360.For scenario #2, I can half understand the problem because many controllers incorrectly require both a squawk change and an IDENT when you first call, but only one of the above is required for radar identification. I can't tell you how often ATC gets this wrong in the sim realm. If the person is on 1200 or 2200, a squawk change is necessary and all that's required. If a discrete code has been assigned, and that aircraft is squawking that code, all that is required is an IDENT. It is acceptable for them to ask for both, but in most cases it really isn't necessary.I will say, though, that if you're new, most controllers understand (and can probably tell - but throw "first flight" in the flight plan anyway, for good measure) and won't get too upset, but do try your best to be on point. If you don't know, ask via chat rather than on the frequency if it's busy. One, it keeps the frequency open and two, it avoids the embarassing feeling of being new. Avoid busier airspace at first (NY and LAX are known to be busy - but if you look on VATSpy/dolomynum/ServInfo and there aren't a ton of aircraft shown on the map, you're fine). It's a courtesy to the controller, and it'll help you more in the end because a busier controller won't be able to help you as much should you need it.LiveATC.net is a great resource to listen to how they do it in the real world.Lastly, please don't ever come on to the controller's frequency and point out "Well Flightaware shows that they are using runway 1R, not 19L, what you're using." One, I strive for realism (and in this case, I can probably direct traffic from my apartment balcony with a better vantage point than Dulles Tower for Runway 1R/19L, so I can see what's going on without even using Flightaware), but in the real world, if the runway configuration changes, they normally finish bringing in a group of aircraft and then switch it up as soon as they can. Online, we don't have the same traffic levels, so the runway configurations are usually very quick changes (I don't have to wait to bring in the last of the aircraft already landing to the south before switching to a north operation because sometimes, I just don't have traffic to bring in). If you want a particular runway, request it. It doesn't mean I have to approve it, but if I see no reason not to, I'll most likely give it to you (and don't argue with me at Roanoke - in the battle of terrain versus aircraft, terrain always wins, sorry).Rant over. Basically, if you have questions, ask.

Share this post


Link to post

As to the why don't they merge question... from the (now offline) unoffical VATSIM FAQ: (copy is located here: http://web.archive.org/web/20070616162850/http://users.adelphia.net/~jbartosh02/vat_faq.htm#V-2 )

Q # V-2) Why don't VATSIM and IVAO merge ? Wouldn't it be better for both networks ?A) I re-post this reply from VATSIM founding member Harv Stein:"As most of you know, I never read newsgroups or Forums, unless asked to by members on a specific topic. Such is the case with this response. Maybe we can point to it next time this topic comes up.When Satco was formed, it was the only online organization of its kind in the world. A gentleman named Morten Hansen was the European director for Satco Europe. I will not get into any details but Morten and Randy Whistler, the Executive Director of Satco had some differences in ideas for Satco and Satco Europe. Morten and Randy decided to part company and Morten formed IVAO. In 2001* the organization known as Satco was closed and VATSIM took over all the responsibilities and membership of Satco in a virtual seamless manner. Today the 2 main organizations worldwide are VATSIM and IVAO.Of course I am partial to VATSIM. I had a part in forming VATSIM, but, I also have had dealings with Morten and his organization. I personally have always found Morten to be a gentlemen and dedicated to his organization and to our hobby.Our organizations have differences and different philosophies, but the goal in both is to Learn, Enjoy and Have Fun. The one question I getasked all the time is, why don't the 2 organizations merge into one. Well, over the years, the differences we have and the distance betweenthem has grown to the point where a merger just is not in the cards. Besides operational and logistical problems, there is always the issue of Politics. No matter how we try, politics will always be a part of everything we do. Neither of us is better than the other. We are just different in most things we do. This difference gives the flightsim world choices. To have quality choices in life is something to be thankful for. I am so glad that our community has choices in VATSIM or IVAO. Both are quality organizations with top notch people running them. Lets all be thankful that both exist. Blue Skies Always.Harv. -- Harv Stein harveys@gto.netBoard of Governors VATSIMLondon Ontario Canada"* corrected from the original pos
Luca

Share this post


Link to post
Guest wims
The point about traffic is true, but the altimeter setting information is not that simple. It is not required to be read back per the 7110.65 and I don't recall it being mentioned in the FAR/AIM. All we really want to hear is that you got the altitude right.....
Actually, reading back altimeter is required in Europe.VATEUD pilot manual : http://vateud.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=90&Itemid=150 VATEUD ATC manual : http://vateud.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=112&Itemid=175#6
Items that must always be read back in full are all clearances (including altitudes' date=' heaings, speeds, radials etc), runway in use, altimeter setting (QNH or QFE) and transition level, and all frequencies[/quote']

Share this post


Link to post

Got it. It wasn't clear in your first post, so I just answered for the US because the OP is from Orlando, FL.

Share this post


Link to post
I see only advantages in merging IVAO and VATSIM, more people, more ATC, more pilots....Big%20Grin.gifIt will be great...(but, i must admit, the project have also a lot of enemies in the respective forums...)
I would love to see them merged, too.But, unfortunately, I don't think it's going to happen...

Share this post


Link to post

2-3 years before i was at your shoes. Joined both of them, tested both of them, and PERSONALLY i chose VATSIM because:a)better ATC services in MY opinionb)Closer to "as real as it gets"again this is MY opinion only gyus...But i have something to say to you. Regardless of the network, I HAVE NEVER flown OFFLINE..I have flown offline only when i tweak my FS...When i fly offline i think i am playing just a game, and i dont want that..:))))

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks alot everyone, i'm still trying to figure out how to sign up and everything I need to do to get online. Do I need FSINN or something? Well on another note, i'm gonna go take my permit test- last part- Road Rules and signs so brb

Share this post


Link to post
Whoever made that decision to "screw this I'll make my own network"... well thanks a lot buddy. With your cowardice you've single handedly crippled what could've been a great community. Now we're having 6-800 ppl on two networks instead of 1400 on one. Thanks for the empty skies mate, appreciate it.BTW I've got an account on both networks and choose one or the other based on traffic/coverage where I'd like to fly that particular night. I've got no idea how this whole thing started. Does anybody know anymore?
Ego? :)Best Regards,Bert Van BulckP.S.: I know for a fact that current IVAO president and VATSIM president get along fine

Share this post


Link to post
Thanks alot everyone, i'm still trying to figure out how to sign up and everything I need to do to get online. Do I need FSINN or something?
Or you can use Sqauwkbox. I don't know what the pros or cons are of each one but at least there's choice.Hope your first flight goes well. It's pretty scary on your first time. Just make sure you're well prepared with charts and a pen and paper.

Share this post


Link to post
The point about traffic is true, but the altimeter setting information is not that simple. It is not required to be read back per the 7110.65 and I don't recall it being mentioned in the FAR/AIM. All we really want to hear is that you got the altitude right.
7110.65 isn't the phraseology bible for the world. Readback of the altimeter setting is mandatory in many places.References:AIP Australia GEN 3.4/4.4.1New Zealand AC91-9 and AC172-1 4.12.1United Kingdon CAP 413 1.14.5Nick Jones

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Derian,I would recommend that you choose an airport with a controller and sit somewhere away from moving traffic and listen to what is going on. Although some of the controllers speak rapidly I have found when getting reacquainted with the going's on of ATC it was a much smoother when doing it this way.Don't forget, we've all had to learn and for the most part everyone remembers their first few flight's in the virtual world, so don't be worried about learning.Say, can anyone tell me why ATC will use the phrase "Follow the Company 737", why is that used to describe an airliner?

Share this post


Link to post
Or you can use Sqauwkbox. I don't know what the pros or cons are of each one but at least there's choice.Hope your first flight goes well. It's pretty scary on your first time. Just make sure you're well prepared with charts and a pen and paper.
And I cant get either one to work. Not bagging, but the support guy could not help me. So I've got another community that I like to fly in.FYI, A single player ATC flight is not TOTALLY unrealistic (No one said it wasn't, but I gotta say it). You can pick up some pointers on phraseology, just dont follow it to the letter.The biggest things to worry about when transitioning are
  • The ATC box does not pop up when the controller talks to you, listen up.
  • Frequencies do not auto-tune (but you knew that), listen intently for the handoff frequency.
  • "Position and Hold" is now "Line up and Wait." Not a big difference for our European friends, but is a recent change in the US.
  • Know your aircraft. A new pilot will likely get some breaks, but make a good first impression by flying proficently.

EDIT:

[say, can anyone tell me why ATC will use the phrase "Follow the Company 737", why is that used to describe an airliner?
The controller will use this when the preceding aircraft if from your same airline. "United 233, follow company (United) 747 to runway 1L."

Share this post


Link to post
Guest wims
...Say, can anyone tell me why ATC will use the phrase "Follow the Company 737", why is that used to describe an airliner?
I'm not an expert, but I believe that only applies for traffic that fly for the same airline company / cargo company as the one you are flying for. Say you fly for American Airlines, if ATC tells you to "Follow the company 737" he means follow the American Airlines 737.

Share this post


Link to post
And I cant get either one to work. Not bagging, but the support guy could not help me. So I've got another community that I like to fly in.The controller will use this when the preceding aircraft if from your same airline. "United 233, follow company (United) 747 to runway 1L."
I'm not an expert, but I believe that only applies for traffic that fly for the same airline company / cargo company as the one you are flying for. Say you fly for American Airlines, if ATC tells you to "Follow the company 737" he means follow the American Airlines 737.
Thanks fellas, that makes a whole lot of sense, I appreciate your help.Eric, I assume you fly VATSIM? Have you tried FSCopilot/FSInn? Installation is simple, if you need help I can lend a hand.

Share this post


Link to post

Yep, I tried Vatsim, still got my account and stuff but theres something screwy with my FSX. One, I own AFX (Flight one), whenever I try to save an edited AFCAD it warns me that my location is for FS9. I ignored it because it worked anyway. Next came FS commander 9 which I installed last week. It tried to default to FS9 as well when I told it where my stuff was. I am assuming now that neither product works (FScopilot/Inn) because of my FSX location, believing me to be FS9, so it wont load properly. I am at a loss.

Share this post


Link to post
7110.65 isn't the phraseology bible for the world. Readback of the altimeter setting is mandatory in many places.References:AIP Australia GEN 3.4/4.4.1New Zealand AC91-9 and AC172-1 4.12.1United Kingdon CAP 413 1.14.5Nick Jones
Yes. I know this. Thus my post, which you can see above, referencing the fact that the original poster is from the US, so I answered accordingly.
Got it. It wasn't clear in your first post, so I just answered for the US because the OP is from Orlando, FL.

Share this post


Link to post

I used to fly on VATSIM, but upgrading to W7 and FSX, I had countless connection problems with SB4.IVAO interface software works well with W7 and I have not really noticed any difference between the 2 networks.(apart from busier skies in Europe on IVAO)There are pilots and controllers with different amounts of experience and abilities I have a real world PPLI have always found IVAO controllers to be as patient as those on VATSIM so I guess it is what works best for the individual.

Share this post


Link to post

Please also check out the Pilot Training program at LA Artcc. The program starts of with basic VFR and goes from there, complete with written scripts.You can also check out the pilot tutorials on the TorontoFIR website http://www.czyz.ca/node/22Mark.

Share this post


Link to post

What about becoming a member of both organizations. There wouldn't be any issue with connectivity via their client programs.Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds for now?

Share this post


Link to post
Guest 747-fan
What about becoming a member of both organizations. There wouldn't be any issue with connectivity via their client programs.Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds for now?
Hear hear, I did that. Being a member of both is free. Here's what I do: 1: I choose a flight(type, location, route)2: check out where there's ATC and/or traffic on Servinfo (which has dual network support)3: Decide which network to fly on based on pt 2I hope more would do this. Since there seems to be no chance that the two organisations will join voluntarily, I hope one will swallow the other, in a good capitalistic "develop a single big competitional advantage, and the customers will prefer us" kind of way. Traffic and ATC is the biggest deciding factor, so I think client and website design, effective training and events would sooner or later give one network an upperhand. Snowball effect would make that upperhand grow until the "weaker" network is marginalized and closes down.

Share this post


Link to post
×
×
  • Create New...