wait!... the ngxs cockpit window will be able to open? What other cool features have I missed?

wait!... the ngxs cockpit window will be able to open? What other cool features have I missed?

I'm pretty sure this is not the case. I think Mr Ryan said this wasn't modeled due to other more important systems/animations etc taking priority. Something to do with performance or something.

The doors and windows on pressurised aircraft are usually designed so that the cabin pressure holds them shut, and pretty much every FS aeroplane simulates that (try it).But there are few scenarios in normal operations which would require you to open the window and chat to the ground crew, since the engine noise on a ramp would usually make it impossible, so it is a nice feature to have them able to open, but not really an essential one, and since there is a limit on the amount of animations you can have on an FS aeroplane, it can easily be dropped in favour of something more relevant.You can see this design feature on the main doors of aeroplanes, which usually pull inwards before pivoting when they are opened, so it is evident that the cabin pressure actually holds them shut, since that will be pushing them into the door frame. The pressure inside an aeroplane might not seem like a lot, but taken over the entire area of the door or window, it adds up to a massive amount of force, so there is no way anyone would have the strength necessary to open the things when the aircraft is pressurised, despite the fact that this often shown in action movies.Interestingly, there is a scenario where this does become relevant on an airliner though, albeit very rare. Most airliner windows are made from three layers, they have glass on the outside, then a layer of clear acrylic, then another layer of glass on the inside, effectively making them a laminated 'sandwich'. It is not unknown for windscreen glass to get a crack from a bird strike or some such. In aircraft manuals, the way they tell you to determine which layer of glass is cracked, is to get a pencil, hold the point of it on the crack, and then shift your viewpoint; if the crack line moves off the tip of the pencil, the outside glass is cracked, if it stays on the tip of the pencil, the inside pane is the one that is cracked. In some aircraft, there will be a requirement to reduce the cabin pressure if there is a crack in the window, but most airliner windows can easily withstand the pressure even with a crack in one or even two of the layers.Ironically, it was a suspected pressure leak on the door of a 737 which did actually lead to a crash once though. Several crews of one particular 737 had reported that a door was making odd noises occasionally, and so the aircraft was tested by engineers on the ground, being fully pressurised on the ground, which is not a normal procedure. They found no fault and so the aircraft was cleared to fly, but in doing the test, they left the switch for pressurising the aircraft in a manual mode, when it is normally in the auto position, and the crew which next flew the aircraft did not check this, they climbed to 8,000 feet and the cabin pressure warning alarm sounded, but they had never heard that alarm before since they were used to that switch being in the auto position, and so they thought is was a false warning sound for another system, they continued their climb, and they all passed out from lack of oxygen, the plane then flew on until it ran out of fuel, then it crashed. That was Helios Airways Flight 522. As a result of this, the preflight checklists were altered on B737s to include checking the position of that switch, and the cabin pressure warning alarm sound was changed.Al

This thread reminds me of the scene in Spinal Tap where Nigel shows off his guitars and equipment."This one goes to 11." :(

Ha! Daryl! This bird really does go to 11 :(

Yeah, it's clearly not an accidental hot start (which is typically when the excess fuel inside the engine has not drained off and it causes the temps to go over the recommended limits, usually from after having not allowed enough time between the last engine run to allow the fuel to drain). The more obvious thing that tells us it is not an unintentional/accidental hot start, is the fact that they were clearly expecting something like that by virtue of the fact that there is a camera on a tripod actually set up waiting for it and the people filming it are not backing away or panicking.Al

This is just simply called a Tailpipe Fire and is referenced as such in our QRC. Pooled gas igniting on engine start. Not as dangerous as people may think. The most dangerous thing is the fact that people tend to panick when they see this.JackColwill

Nah, PMDG will just make ten louder. :(

This is just simply called a Tailpipe Fire and is referenced as such in our QRC. Pooled gas igniting on engine start. Not as dangerous as people may think. The most dangerous thing is the fact that people tend to panick when they see this.JackColwill

It's the perfect way to de-ice a wing in three seconds.Al

It is pretty difficult to mess up starting an APU or an engine.. Not sure about the NG but on the H-60 we have a DESU on the APU that automatically shuts it down if any fault other than a hot start is detected. Same thing on the engines with their DECU's, and I am sure the CFM's have some kind of control module that is similar on them. As long as you wait long enough to spool the engines up shouldn't have any issues.

Ironically, it was a suspected pressure leak on the door of a 737 which did actually lead to a crash once though. Several crews of one particular 737 had reported that a door was making odd noises occasionally, and so the aircraft was tested by engineers on the ground, being fully pressurised on the ground, which is not a normal procedure. They found no fault and so the aircraft was cleared to fly, but in doing the test, they left the switch for pressurising the aircraft in a manual mode, when it is normally in the auto position, and the crew which next flew the aircraft did not check this, they climbed to 8,000 feet and the cabin pressure warning alarm sounded, but they had never heard that alarm before since they were used to that switch being in the auto position, and so they thought is was a false warning sound for another system, they continued their climb, and they all passed out from lack of oxygen, the plane then flew on until it ran out of fuel, then it crashed. That was Helios Airways Flight 522. As a result of this, the preflight checklists were altered on B737s to include checking the position of that switch, and the cabin pressure warning alarm sound was changed.Al

I've watched the Mayday's episode about this accident several times. They repeat that episode at least once a month. The plane was a 737-300 I guess, Helios 552.When the aircraft reached 10.000 feet, the cabin low pressure warning came up, but the pilots confused it with a take-off warning. They contacted Helios maintenance center to figure out what was going on, but their efforts were fruitless. The pilots then searched the QRH, but it's believed that because of the hipoxia, caused by the low oxigen levels in their brains, they got very confused and couldn't "understand" what was happening around them anymore. According to the program, hipoxia can cause one to forget about 50 to 75% of what he learned throughout life, so the pilots could have forgot how to operate the airplane. The main reason of the accident was that both pilots failed to notice that the cabin pressurization system was set to manual.As you said, Al, and inspection was made in that aircraft to check if the aircraft was indeed sealed, after some crew member that had flown that airplane before reported ice forming in one of the aft doors. Nothing was found and the maintenance crew left the airplane, but the guy who was in the cockpit controlling the pressure forgot to switch the pessurization system back to auto. They pilots didn't notice that the knob was in the wrong position, the passed out during the flight and without someone to tell the aircraft to descent, it flew until its fuel was gone. The investigatiors believe that all the passengers were alive until the moment of crash. A flight attendant, Andreas Prodromou, who wanted to be a pilot, managed to enter in the cockpit, but he didn't know how to pilot a 737, provided he only had flight experience in a few small GA planes.Two fighter jets were sent to intercept the flight because the authorities suspected that the plane had been hijacked. One of the pilots saw Andreas in the cockpit.

I gotta an ol' GTCP 85 APU from a field last year. Spent some time a work gettin' her going. Bit similar to the newer one's used in the NG's - My model is similar to those used in DC-9's and 73 Classics...er...I mean "Originals" (whatever they call the 100/200's now)Give you an idea of what kinda crazy sounds such things make...The one's even in aircraft are a little less rough but they do make their fare share of grunts and growls during start as well...this gonna be modelled too ;)Anyways, gotta blow up me ego here a bit, and share the vid.

This is just simply called a Tailpipe Fire and is referenced as such in our QRC. Pooled gas igniting on engine start. Not as dangerous as people may think. The most dangerous thing is the fact that people tend to panick when they see this.JackColwill

This is so true, When i worked on the ramp (NOT WestJet) I was pushing out a -900 off the gate, the crew started #2 then proceded to Hot Start #1. Quite the sight to see 50 feet in front of you, but I knew exactly what it was, no need for any major reaction. I can't remember the exact verbage between myself and the crew during the time but we were having a bit of a chuckle about it and how we have to wait a few minutes to attempt a re-start. And it was then a over anxious passenger seated in the overwing emergency exit row decided it was a good idea to pop open the emergency door and jump out on the wing. Needless to say the entire pax cabin followed. I jumped out of the push tractor and proceded to spend the next 20 minutes trying to keep the pax for wondering about in a huge panic in the middle of the ramp.

Damn that spool up sounds good :D

There's a similar story floating around the internet of a CFM-56 starting in the cold. The engine produces a large amount of smoke as it starts, and someone decided to leap out the emergency exit. They broke their ankle on the slide, and as such, the flight had to be cancelled.

...with the big radial engines and stuff like that have to realize that was a different era and those engines had inherent issues - the comparison to a modern high-bypass turbofan with EECs isn't really valid.

With respect to piston and jets. Whats interesting is the accident rate that dramatically dropped when the use of jets became more abundant back in the 60's.

Now if we could just get jet engines to sound like the big radials of old... life would be good

One question that I have about the APU is will it burn fuel? I have noticed that the PMDG 747 and the Level-D 767 APU's don't burn any fuel. Perhaps a bit of added realism for the future.

As Ryan said, it is modeled in both. If you leave the APU running for the whole preflight (assuming FS2Crew, 45min for the 74 and 30min for the 76), you will see fuel usage in the #2 (744) or left (763) tank.

Oh I am certain this will be modeled. There are a couple other NG sims that model APU fuel burn. However, their accuracy may or may not be accurate. I am sure these guys will ace the APU fuel burn. APU runs off the NO.1 tank I believe.

It normally does but looking at the fuel schematic, it looks like if you override the DC pump by turning on a main fuel pump and opening the x-feed, you could feed from any of the three tanks. Anyone on the tech team wanna try it?

This is so true, When i worked on the ramp (NOT WestJet) I was pushing out a -900 off the gate, the crew started #2 then proceded to Hot Start #1. Quite the sight to see 50 feet in front of you, but I knew exactly what it was, no need for any major reaction. I can't remember the exact verbage between myself and the crew during the time but we were having a bit of a chuckle about it and how we have to wait a few minutes to attempt a re-start. And it was then a over anxious passenger seated in the overwing emergency exit row decided it was a good idea to pop open the emergency door and jump out on the wing. Needless to say the entire pax cabin followed. I jumped out of the push tractor and proceded to spend the next 20 minutes trying to keep the pax for wondering about in a huge panic in the middle of the ramp.

I don't think i'd want to open up the overwing exit on the side of the engine in question if it was even a real fire! You'd think he/she woulda figured that. Did that happen in this case? (CADOR for this somewhere? hahaha)"Ohh my, there's a major fire developing right outside my emergency exit! I better open that up!" *sarcasm*Personally, until I hear that "evacuate" command over the comms or an angry screech from an F/A I'd probably wait to open an exit.The youtube comments are killing me for that tailpipe vid. All the "i would of shut it right down" and "poor safety" and all that BS just gets me all riled up.Neat vid though. Gonna forward that one around the crew.