it is really well done IMO, beyond my personal expectations

Thanks a lot for your valuable remarks.I will seriously consider buying this addon. BTW How do you like the VC quality?(I got spoiled by AirSImmer and iFly)

We're all responsible for our own conducts and actions. Every one of us. When Ron is involved in a thread and conflict comes along (consistantly), is that because an army of people are stalking him and always come to threads that Ron is on, to pick on him? ...... Unlikely; a lot more likely that Ron has the attitude issue, rather than everyone else. As Dillon said, it's a lack of patience with customers, almost a contempt towards some people, and a total inability to take on board any criticism of his products. Anyway, I have personally bought a lot of ES products is the past, and been VERY happy with most of them. However I do feel that (since FSX came along and expectations as well as delivery moved up a few bars), the texturing quality on their latest releases is way below par. Bill, you feel it's unfair to compare the PMDG 737NGX for FSX, with the CJ1+ 2.0 for FS9 ............ ok then, point taken, then in that case, I'll compare the CJ1+ 2.0 for FS9 with the AirSimmer A320 or the iFly 737 both for FS9. Or any Captain Sim release from the last few years. I'm sure they are fair comparisons. I'm only talking about texturing here; yes the systems on ES planes tend to be good, bugs few, and stability good. I am merely feeding back that with the Citation x 2.0 and this new CJ1+ 2.0 I feel that virtual cockpit textures are not on a par with other contemporary releases; even for FS9. And that's what stops me buying this.

Bill, you feel it's unfair to compare the PMDG 737NGX for FSX, with the CJ1+ 2.0 for FS9 ............ ok then, point taken, then in that case, I'll compare the CJ1+ 2.0 for FS9 with the AirSimmer A320 or the iFly 737 both for FS9. Or any Captain Sim release from the last few years. I'm sure they are fair comparisons.

I do respect your opinion, although I have to wonder about comparisons of "texture quality" based solely on low-resolution screenshots. As you are well aware, the final arbiter of "quality" should be how a product appears on your monitor, using your hardware and chosen screen resolution. This realization, coupled with our sincere desire for customers to be satisfied, is one of chief reasons for our thirty-day, no questions asked refund policy. This gives customers an opportunity to see and evaluate the quality of work, and fitness for purpose in the comfort of their own environment.

We're all responsible for our own conducts and actions. Every one of us. When Ron is involved in a thread and conflict comes along (consistantly), is that because an army of people are stalking him and always come to threads that Ron is on, to pick on him? ...... Unlikely; a lot more likely that Ron has the attitude issue, rather than everyone else. As Dillon said, it's a lack of patience with customers, almost a contempt towards some people, and a total inability to take on board any criticism of his products. Anyway, I have personally bought a lot of ES products is the past, and been VERY happy with most of them. However I do feel that (since FSX came along and expectations as well as delivery moved up a few bars), the texturing quality on their latest releases is way below par. Bill, you feel it's unfair to compare the PMDG 737NGX for FSX, with the CJ1+ 2.0 for FS9 ............ ok then, point taken, then in that case, I'll compare the CJ1+ 2.0 for FS9 with the AirSimmer A320 or the iFly 737 both for FS9. Or any Captain Sim release from the last few years. I'm sure they are fair comparisons. I'm only talking about texturing here; yes the systems on ES planes tend to be good, bugs few, and stability good. I am merely feeding back that with the Citation x 2.0 and this new CJ1+ 2.0 I feel that virtual cockpit textures are not on a par with other contemporary releases; even for FS9. And that's what stops me buying this.

The thing about the CJ that folks don't seem to realize is that it really is a bland neutral grey color with few highlights or shadows - it looks pretty much like ES depicted it. You may or may not like the look, but it is what it is. You can find numerous pictures of the real deal out there, and the first thing you'll notice is that the grey varies according to lighting and camera, but the monotonic blandness shows through regardless. A good example is here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cockpit_of_a_Cessna_CJ1_.JPG . DJ

We're all responsible for our own conducts and actions. Every one of us. When Ron is involved in a thread and conflict comes along (consistantly), is that because an army of people are stalking him and always come to threads that Ron is on, to pick on him? ...... Unlikely; a lot more likely that Ron has the attitude issue, rather than everyone else. As Dillon said, it's a lack of patience with customers, almost a contempt towards some people, and a total inability to take on board any criticism of his products. Anyway, I have personally bought a lot of ES products is the past, and been VERY happy with most of them. However I do feel that (since FSX came along and expectations as well as delivery moved up a few bars), the texturing quality on their latest releases is way below par. Bill, you feel it's unfair to compare the PMDG 737NGX for FSX, with the CJ1+ 2.0 for FS9 ............ ok then, point taken, then in that case, I'll compare the CJ1+ 2.0 for FS9 with the AirSimmer A320 or the iFly 737 both for FS9. Or any Captain Sim release from the last few years. I'm sure they are fair comparisons. I'm only talking about texturing here; yes the systems on ES planes tend to be good, bugs few, and stability good. I am merely feeding back that with the Citation x 2.0 and this new CJ1+ 2.0 I feel that virtual cockpit textures are not on a par with other contemporary releases; even for FS9. And that's what stops me buying this.

Stick:There are two things we expect in discussions regardng our products. A.] An honest and truthful assessment. B] An accurate and knowledgable assessment.Those who specialize in refusing A.] or B.] in order to spread strife or misinformation are occasionally addressed.We have documented trackrecord of a number of individuals who have violated Avsim Rules and Common Civility under false pretense and fake forum IDs to harass and stir arguments in these very forums.Why not let sleeping dogs lay where they are rather than stirring the pot once more? I'll point you to the Mods own warning in this very thread which you've obviously ignored.."The AVSIM forums are discussion forums. Feel free to discuss the product - not abuse each other."

The thing about the CJ that folks don't seem to realize is that it really is a bland neutral grey color with few highlights or shadows - it looks pretty much like ES depicted it. You may or may not like the look, but it is what it is. You can find numerous pictures of the real deal out there, and the first thing you'll notice is that the grey varies according to lighting and camera, but the monotonic blandness shows through regardless. A good example is here http://commons.wikim...Cessna_CJ1_.JPG . DJ

Thanks Ubersu, Those who've been in real world Citation Corporate Jets will quickly note that they ALL appear to have been carefully masked off and then sprayed with the same grey paint.

Yep, flat, dull and lifeless gray paint...

I do respect your opinion, although I have to wonder about comparisons of "texture quality" based solely on low-resolution screenshots. As you are well aware, the final arbiter of "quality" should be how a product appears on your monitor, using your hardware and chosen screen resolution. This realization, coupled with our sincere desire for customers to be satisfied, is one of chief reasons for our thirty-day, no questions asked refund policy. This gives customers an opportunity to see and evaluate the quality of work, and fitness for purpose in the comfort of their own environment.

Hi BillI didn't know you guys had such a generous refund policy. You can't be any fairer than that. Given your company policy, I have even less patience with some of the comments on this thread. There's no excuse to bash a product they haven't even tried, just based on screen shots. If they're interested in it, buy it and if they don't like it, get a refund. If they're not interested, don't buy it and move on to another topic. I have no problem with people critiquing a product they have purchased - I've done my share of that myself and that's a legitimate function of the forums. But to criticize something you haven't even tried is inexcusable.Enough said - this pot has already been stirred and the contents burned beyond recognition. Hopefully people will calm down and go back to enjoying our hobbyCheersIan

Thanks Ubersu, Those who've been in real world Citation Corporate Jets will quickly note that they ALL appear to have been carefully masked off and then sprayed with the same grey paint.

Yep, appears they got a lifetime supply of MilStd light gull grey paint. I used to build telephone switches that were same color... DJ

After a 300NM+ test flight I couldn't come up with any bug report or real complaint. The plane flew beautifully. I tested all systems in normal operations and all worked well, navigation using the universal FMS and autopilot all the way to 500 above. The plane flew the entire approach including a procedure turn very well. The Proline 21 and universal FMS simulation is very thorough. I made a few comments on minor things in the ES forum in case there is room for improvement but over all it is really well done IMO, beyond my personal expectations.

Our thanks Windy...

It seems I am getting a bad start on this addon: First of all, I am not able to go to the support forum, I tried to register yesterday, but it has to be manually approved and nothing happened until now. I absolutely understand, that measures against spamming have to be taken, but especially shortly after the release of a new product, I would expect an activation at least within 24h. So I do not know, if my issues are being addressed at the support forum, nevertheless I'll try my luck here. I have the following problems: 1. The installer installed a link to the documentation on the desktop that does not work, it points somewhere where nothing is found. The installation told the docs would be in the c:eaglesoft folder, but there are only the installation folders. This is a minor issue, since I was able to locate the docs whithin the FS9/Eaglesoft folder, but this should be fixed. 2. The paintkit that should be part of the package is nowhere to be found. 3. This is the real showstopper: There was only a widescreen panel installed. This looks absolutely ridiculous on my 4:3 screen. I looked in the panel folder, but I cannot find anything like an alternative panel cfg., alternative bmp etc. I neither find an configuration utility that does the trick. So I am a bit surprised, since so far I never witnessed a plane w/o 4:3 panel. If anybody knows a solution, any help would be appreciated. 4. There seem to be some gauges missing (esp. the panel swith icons), so I am not sure if the installation works correctly. (This may also be the problem with the ws-panel) Any help would most welcome, Torsten

It seems I am getting a bad start on this addon: First of all, I am not able to go to the support forum, I tried to register yesterday, but it has to be manually approved and nothing happened until now. I absolutely understand, that measures against spamming have to be taken, but especially shortly after the release of a new product, I would expect an activation at least within 24h. So I do not know, if my issues are being addressed at the support forum, nevertheless I'll try my luck here. I have the following problems: 1. The installer installed a link to the documentation on the desktop that does not work, it points somewhere where nothing is found. The installation told the docs would be in the c:eaglesoft folder, but there are only the installation folders. This is a minor issue, since I was able to locate the docs whithin the FS9/Eaglesoft folder, but this should be fixed. 2. The paintkit that should be part of the package is nowhere to be found. 3. This is the real showstopper: There was only a widescreen panel installed. This looks absolutely ridiculous on my 4:3 screen. I looked in the panel folder, but I cannot find anything like an alternative panel cfg., alternative bmp etc. I neither find an configuration utility that does the trick. So I am a bit surprised, since so far I never witnessed a plane w/o 4:3 panel. If anybody knows a solution, any help would be appreciated. 4. There seem to be some gauges missing (esp. the panel swith icons), so I am not sure if the installation works correctly. (This may also be the problem with the ws-panel) Any help would most welcome, Torsten

First, have you contacted [email protected] with your registered username so we can activate your membership?? Second. The desktop installer placed icon Documentation Shortcut works well if you've accepted the conventional C: Drive FS Location. Third, We never include a paint kit in our Product Download Package but rather place it on our Downloads Page sometime after release. Fourth, We are working to provide a 4:3 Ratio 2D Panel in the next product update. Please understand that we have exactly two requests for a 4:3 Ratio 2D Panel as the majority of folks have moved to 16:9 Flatscreen Monitors. Fifth, we know of no "missing files" but will be glad to assist in our Support Forum.

ok, thanks for the fast reply: 1.) I got the following mail yesterday after my registration:

Your account is currently inactive and will need to be approved by anadministrator before you can log in. Another email will be sent when thishas occured.Your password has been securely stored in our database and cannot beretrieved. In the event that it is forgotten, you will be able to reset itusing the email address associated with your account.Thank you for registering.--ALL new registrations will be Manually Activated by support adminstratortherefore a "Username" MUST be included in all emails regarding Activation.Our contact email is

[email protected]

Thanks, The Management

It never appeared to me that I had to send an additional email to the support. (What a complicated procedure to gain access to the support forum) I thought, the activation process would follow automatically. Therefore I waited for the mail confirming the activation as described in the first paragraph. I thought, the last paragraph would apply only if there are any problems regarding the activation that make a support contact necessary. However, I will send a mail to support requesting an activation, but I still think this is a much too complicated way to get access to the support forum and maybe this process and the necessity to send a mail on top of the registration should be stated much clearer 2. Not true. Believe me: I DID use the standard FS9 Folder and the link DIDN'T work. Maybe the installer cannot handle my german Windows XP? F.e. the folder "program files" is called "programme" on a german system. Nevertheless, this really is a minor minor issue, and needs not to be discussed furthermore in my opinion, I only hope, everything else is "in position". As I stated above, I did find the docs, so there is no problem there. 3. Regarding the paintkit: Good to know, since it is stated on the "Features" page and I could neither locate it online nor in the package on my computer. 4. So there really is no 4:3 panel at this time. Maybe this should be stated on the product page since it is a showstopper for me. Can you give a time estimate for the "next update"? My problem is, that flight1 has this 30 day deadline for refunds and I would like to have a plane that I can use until then. 5. Concerning missing gauges: this may be my problem not checking correctly. Since I was pretty annoyed about the WS-panel, I didn't go into it very deeply. So I will wait for the 4:3 panel. I would be really glad to use this aircraft, good bizjets are very rare, so I hope this will be fixed. With kind regards, Torsten

Just for the record - I use and prefer 4:3... I know - I know - I don't think you can even buy 4:3 anymore...; )Regards,Scott

4. So there really is no 4:3 panel at this time. Maybe this should be stated on the product page since it is a showstopper for me. Can you give a time estimate for the "next update"? My problem is, that flight1 has this 30 day deadline for refunds and I would like to have a plane that I can use until then.

Torsten, I just sent Ron the panel.43 folder that I created the other day and sent to one customer to validate for me as I don't even have a 4:3 monitor any more... ;) Ron is rebuilding the installer package and will advise here when it is ready. It may take an hour or so to rebuild and put on the ftp server.