How does the average 'Joe' get the culture when it's not explained to people who go to the developers site?

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I don't own the company, I don't make policy or direct marketing. The best I can do is explain the way it is when you deal with "Austin's Sim". Without a doubt there are eccentricities that come with the ride.....i.e. you take the good with the bad. Surely we all have deficiencies in whatever endeavors we participate in and if the good outweighs the bad, we stick around.Boy could I go around and around all day long about managing expectations....but in reality, we are all contractors to Laminar and have to stay within our assigned role. The primary reason we're out here trying to keep information straight is exactly because of your observation where the information isn't always clear coming from Laminar. There is a "explainable" reason for this...though most could argue it's not a good one and they wouldn't be terribly wrong...but as I said, if at the end of the day the good outweighs the bad.

tkyler, you have an good mix of interests there. I only say it because I don't often come across someone that mixes computers,software dev/aviation/woodworking/metalworking/astronomy. Much like myself :) I hope you are putting that metalwork/woodwork to good use with your astronomy. Sorry, a bit OT.

Want to know more about X-Plane and us cronies?Google is your friend!I bet most everyone here when they first took an interest in flight-simulators, first started by visiting sites and forums to learn what it was about and how to go about getting involved.This is no different today.It just seems to me that some people prefer FSX over ANY version of XPlane. So be it.But why come here and start dishing it and anyone who Enjoys it.

tkyler, you have an good mix of interests there. I only say it because I don't often come across someone that mixes computers,software dev/aviation/woodworking/metalworking/astronomy. Much like myself :) I hope you are putting that metalwork/woodwork to good use with your astronomy. Sorry, a bit OT.

Wait until you get a load of this ...I am a astronaut, cowboy, engineer, musician, computer builder, home builder, photographer, chef.....

Want to know more about X-Plane and us cronies?Google is your friend!I bet most everyone here when they first took an interest in flight-simulators, first started by visiting sites and forums to learn what it was about and how to go about getting involved.This is no different today.It just seems to me that some people prefer FSX over ANY version of XPlane. So be it.But why come here and start dishing it and anyone who Enjoys it.

I am not sure that statement is accurate. The hugely negative reaction of fs9'ers/simmers to fsx when it came out make this thread look hugely tame in compare. Every product whether it be a new aircraft add on, or simulator is gonna have people posting positives, negatives, sometimes even misunderstandings of a product and sometimes truths. It all comes out in the wash. I see what is going on with xplane 10 right here in this thread very positive-when it was suggested to reopen an xplane forum here a few years ago the facts were that it had been tried in the past but was largely innactive. The number of posts and interest here now speaking of xplane 10 show a new interest which is only good for this sim-but of course that means people expressing their opinions-good, bad, and maybe even innacurate-because that is what they are-opinions. As long as the comments don't get personal (which they have been teetering on in this thead) that is what the forum is for-a discussion of Xplane. So far I see quite a few positive comments-even in the op. With fsx there were almost none....and it took quite a while for many to come around-but they did. As someone said earlier the sim will stand on its own.

and also given the fact that he's sitting at a computer keyboard instead of a real one with no physical feedback whatsoever pretty much relegates what he THINKS he is perceiving to his brain only and he simply should have worded it such.

I do believe we've discussed this before. An engineers perception versus a pilots perception. It's true, that there is no real physical feeback. We're not using artificial feedback & quite frankly, I don't want to, anyway..........unless it's a full motion sim with good simulated control feel. But.................the sim aircraft can be programmed to provide a sense of feel. Quite a few senses actually. It's all done visually, through delays, etc. There is only the resistance of the joystick spring, coupled with the visuals on the screen, but it does work. Since I am familiar with feel of numerous flight regimes, within limitations..........a desktop computer simulation can go a certain distance in making the user seem to feel the flight controls, as the pilots brain fills in many of the gaps.Therefor, it isn't too tough, to sit at a keyboard, and assess whether a model has any decent feel to it, or not. In the past, I've described lackluster flight models, that impart the feeling of a puppet on a string. It moves exactly with the control movements, and imparts a feel of operating in an empty vacuum at best. On the other hand, we can get models that give a sense of dampening, power to weight, drag of flaps, yaw, ballooning, STOL characteristics, and so forth. As I previously said, all the programmer has to work with, is the movement on the screen, in relation to control movements of the stick, yoke, pedals, and a few other accessories.FWIW--- Tom K. has done a rather good job, with his single engine (payware) aircraft for X-Plane 9. I don't have the MU-2. I'll assume the experience has gone into version 10.

I am not sure that statement is accurate. The hugely negative reaction of fs9'ers/simmers to fsx when it came out make this thread look hugely tame in compare.

And Microsoft's FS98 versus Sierra's Pro-Pilot was even worse. It was like a bunch of religious fanatics, with the "F" word thrown about regularly on various forums. Of interest, Geoff and I........were pro Pro-Pilot at the time....

Want to know more about X-Plane and us cronies?Google is your friend!I bet most everyone here when they first took an interest in flight-simulators, first started by visiting sites and forums to learn what it was about and how to go about getting involved.This is no different today.It just seems to me that some people prefer FSX over ANY version of XPlane. So be it.But why come here and start dishing it and anyone who Enjoys it.

There were bbs's when I had FS on my c64 but I dont think there was much information about it on there. ;) Aside from that, I know what you mean. Pretty much with any complex sim you use the internet these days to get the best out of it. I am an avid simmer. I have done a lot of time on msfs over the years but I admit to spending more time these days on the military sims like DCS or even falcon. When I did buy a beta of DCS A10 it was clear that I had done that. When people complained about poor framerates they had good reason to get replies saying 'what do you expect, it's a beta!'. When we paid it was _very_ clear we were buying in to a beta. Here I find people getting the same treatment when it is not clear at all. I spend a lot of time simming and on simming sites but I dont know a lot about xplane. It was not clear to me at all until I read this thread. Sure, I could do more googling but if the developer will not tell me then dont blame me or others who dont know this. Also, I dont think they are dishing xplane anymore than I see diehard people on other games dish the games they like because they want to see improvements. Austin may have got rich by putting xplane on the ipad but you need those MSFS people to come over to xplane if it's going to have a good future. The money he got will only last so long. You want them using the product and for that to happen you have to listen to what they want. Why move from one product to another if you are happy with what you have. There needs to be an incentive and it seems like FS guys have an incentive to stay with FS. xplane should be curios as to why and what features stop people moving over. It's all useful feedback in the end.

I totally agree Larry, provided the person is capable of the interpretation. Clearly humans process on many different levels and abilities and not all have the same abilities....but I'd also agree that's something that you really can't prove, certainly not over a forum and is therefore not a good point of fact.

I will just give up! It took me 10mn to set my controllers yesterday and today it's back to zero? It was supposed to save the assignment...

Much like myself :) I hope you are putting that metalwork/woodwork to good use with your astronomy

Jason, Not quite yet...but I do have a telescope design on the drawing board (CAD board?). I've also taken to learning how to program an Arduino microcontroller....primarily to build my own flight sim hardware, but think I can make a telescope drive with it too.

You should be able to do something with arduino, I gave it a go after doing some raw atmel development. Easy to make aircraft panels. I tried some, easy to do, just the time factor, its not so quick to make it all as I a sure you are aware :) I built a 12.5" Ritchey Chretien in my workshop shop a little while back but I decided not to build the mount as it would still cost a lot to build to my specs. Do it, one day when you have the time. It's nice looking through the scope you build yourself. Here is one of my boys next the the one I built. http://gallery.me.co...e&bgcolor=black

It just seems to me that some people prefer FSX over ANY version of XPlane. So be it.But why come here and start dishing it and anyone who Enjoys it.

They are a bunch of babies.... plain and simple. Grown men acting like kids.If Flight bombs... you won't see a childish reaction from the X Plane user base. They're cut from a different cloth.Craig

@MM,ANYONE looking for a Flight Sim WILL check out forums and sites for info. NO ONE is going to just d/l it without knowing anything about it.

That's not a safe assumption. It's in Laminar's best interest to be proactive about educating their potential customers. It could make a difference between a sale and someone walking away unimpressed.

Funny thing...The more I read the more I realize....The TOTAL "Flight-Sim" community is very passionate about flying.But Remember, for most of us, this is a hobby, and it's suppose to be a fun thing.So enough of this, I'm heading back to my Dreamfoil R22 and XP10 to found some more mailboxes.Great touch Tom, nothing beats Street by Street VFR in the R22!@MM,I'm sorry sir, but what is it your looking for?

They are a bunch of babies.... plain and simple. Grown men acting like kids.If Flight bombs... you won't see a childish reaction from the X Plane user base. They're cut from a different cloth.Craig

..and what part did you not get about making it personal?