I agree the ground texures, while about the same resolution as FSX, look better than stock FSX. They look maybe a bit better or close to addon FSX. I imagine addon XP10 will bring us fresh new features. That's the main reason I'm excited. I really like the atmospheric conditions in XP over FSX. IMC feels like IMC in XP.Since I know the LR guys read these forums I'd hope that something can be done about that UI :)Thanks!

Hello folks,First, let the old guy tell you that when I opened this thread, I thought I was in a school playground. I asked myself "are these grown-ups" or just kids arguing?I have purchased all versions of X-Plane (including X-Plane for iPhone), but I always went back to MSFS, for the same reasons many of us did. Although I agree with most of the remarks of the original poster, I am now inclined to look a little deeper into X-Plane 10. Calling this version a demo instead of a beta was probably a little bit misleading, as Laminar Research has always offered a full working version (with a smaller flying area) of their software, so most of us thought this was an example of the final product. But for the very first time I am inclined to buy a payware aircraft (I had read some good opinions about a few of them) to explore X-Plane a little further. I just need to decide which one.I am running the demo (whoops! beta ;-) ) on a Macbook Pro and it seems to run very well, with the advantage that I do not need to reboot via bootcamp in order to run FSX under Win7Jean-Jacques

look at the Carenado aircrafthttp://www.carenado.com/CarSite/Portal/index.php

look at the Carenado aircrafthttp://www.carenado....ortal/index.php

Thanks Tierborn,The Carenado F33 is definitively one of the planes I am looking at. I wonder if the installer runs on a Mac.Jean-Jacques

Thanks Tierborn,The Carenado F33 is definitively one of the planes I am looking at. I wonder if the installer runs on a Mac.Jean-Jacques

The Carenado site says it runs with MAC OS 10.3.9 or higher

Isn't Xplane shipping before Christmas?If so I'd certainly struggle to call it a beta. Heck, even the Xplane website calls it a demo. If the manufacturers of the product are calling it a demo I think we can be pretty sure it's a demo.There's one guy on another site trying to convince everyone it's a pre-alpha

I got notice today that my copy is shipping...

Thanks Tierborn,The Carenado F33 is definitively one of the planes I am looking at. I wonder if the installer runs on a Mac.Jean-Jacques

Be aware there are some small issues in xp10-the spinning prop for one.

Whatever the debate as to "demo" vs. "beta" vs. "alpha", the important thing to understand with X-Plane (and spread the word to new tire kickers who may not know)....is that with x-plane, it is constantly improved and frequently updated..especially after a major release like this. Updates are as simple as hitting a button and walking away for a bit. When you come back, you might have new planes, the sim might be brighter..you might even be at a new default airport....there might be new autogen artwork...anything is possible with the updates. A lot of confusion started when a user thought that what he saw, being a "demo" was absolutely indicative of what he would experience for some time to come...and I sympathized with that, but in reality, the terminology is semantics...yea I can argue it's poor terminology no doubt, hence this clarification. We are making updates even as we speak/type. On Monday, I'll begin optimizing and refining KSEA and by the time your DVD arrives and you update (which you will the first time you fire it up), then what you get after the update may not be what you see in the demo. This is the x-plane way, has always been the xplane way and there's many thousands of users who don't seem to mind it....indeed love that fact that we monitor the forums, take emails directly and then squeeze the requests into the updates as best we can. Now early only in this update process will be bug fixes..and as the bugs get squashed and stability ensues, then you'll see performance optimizations and enhancements after that.In fact...I can usually make some improvement or change....upload the change to the xplane dev servers...and that update can be available to users within an hour....technologically speaking. What we really do is accumulate improvements for some period of time (unless it's a critical bug fix) and then release an update with multiple improvements. Also, the thing with the updater is that it checks what you have vs. what is available. So you don't need to wait for some email letting you know if an update is ready...you simply run the updater every now and again and if there's something to download, then viola, there's an update. If you have the latest, then it will tell you that you are up to date.

To be honest..............you don't really know what you're talking about. The OP isn't a troll looking for a reaction. It was based on many years of desktop simming & real flight. Keep in mind, that MSFS is a platform on which many 3rd parties built upon. It's been extremely easy to get in touch with 3rd party vendors. And MSFS was very open with 3rd parties in regards to the beta procecess........for the three versions I beta tested. No middle finger.L.Adamson --- X-Plane 8,9, all MSFS, real pilot, etc.

Mr. Adamson,You're one of the few even keeled peeple in here. The OP is not a troll.... he just has a MSFS bias clear as day from his postings here.....I don't care if he's Chuck Yeager....I'm just stating the obvious here and you know it's true.Heck.... I've read your posts many times try and balance a debate with fair comparisons and then wrap your posts up with a "Hey....I fly them both" statement at the end.....but back in the early days..... several years ago you too, my friend, had a slight zombie affliction. I guess you grew tired of being a part of flightsim feud.This has been going on for as long as I can remember... but times are changing and the zombies don't like it.Craig

I am still getting the left turn at takeoff using the KingAir B90CNow I cannot remember how to remedy thisTrim rudder does not do the trick

Whatever the debate as to "demo" vs. "beta" vs. "alpha", the important thing to understand with X-Plane (and spread the word to new tire kickers who may not know)....is that with x-plane, it is constantly improved and frequently updated..especially after a major release like this. Updates are as simple as hitting a button and walking away for a bit. When you come back, you might have new planes, the sim might be brighter..you might even be at a new default airport....there might be new autogen artwork...anything is possible with the updates. A lot of confusion started when a user thought that what he saw, being a "demo" was absolutely indicative of what he would experience for some time to come...and I sympathized with that, but in reality, the terminology is semantics...yea I can argue it's poor terminology no doubt, hence this clarification. We are making updates even as we speak/type. On Monday, I'll begin optimizing and refining KSEA and by the time your DVD arrives and you update (which you will the first time you fire it up), then what you get after the update may not be what you see in the demo. This is the x-plane way, has always been the xplane way and there's many thousands of users who don't seem to mind it....indeed love that fact that we monitor the forums, take emails directly and then squeeze the requests into the updates as best we can. Now early only in this update process will be bug fixes..and as the bugs get squashed and stability ensues, then you'll see performance optimizations and enhancements after that.In fact...I can usually make some improvement or change....upload the change to the xplane dev servers...and that update can be available to users within an hour....technologically speaking. What we really do is accumulate improvements for some period of time (unless it's a critical bug fix) and then release an update with multiple improvements. Also, the thing with the updater is that it checks what you have vs. what is available. So you don't need to wait for some email letting you know if an update is ready...you simply run the updater every now and again and if there's something to download, then viola, there's an update. If you have the latest, then it will tell you that you are up to date.

Thanks Tom for getting this info out.There are so many potential users that really need to understand the X Plane culture.The "demo" is very impressive on my machine..... especially the HDR night lighting... wow!I'm getting 30-35fps with HDR on at KSEA at night! and it's only gonna get better.Very niceCraig

Mr. Adamson,You're one of the few even keeled peeple in here. The OP is not a troll.... he just has a MSFS bias clear as day from his postings here.....I don't care if he's Chuck Yeager....I'm just stating the obvious here and you know it's true.Heck.... I've read your posts many times try and balance a debate with fair comparisons and then wrap your posts up with a "Hey....I fly them both" statement at the end.....but back in the early days..... several years ago you too, my friend, had a slight zombie affliction. I guess you grew tired of being a part of flightsim feud.This has been going on for as long as I can remember... but times are changing and the zombies don't like it.Craig

What are you talking about? Mike hit the current state of XP10 right on the head, from what I've seen so far. I think the "Lego Brick" approach for the scenery was a mistake, and it does seem unrealistic (especially if you have to turn down detail to run). I think XP9 scenery without the visibility limitations would look better. Not once did he state FSX did things better than XP, but he did say there were areas in XP that were done better then FSX. Flight models in both default XP and FSX aircraft models are not good, so nothing new there. However you can't go around boasting Blade Element theory allows you to make aircraft with better flight models just by the geometry of the airfoils of the model, as Austin does and not be called on it. The more experienced XP modelers like Goran and Tom know there is much more to it, just like in FSX. There are some very nice GA XP models with very good flight models, the MU-2 being my favorite, but not many airliners as yet. The CRJ looks good, but I haven't tried it yet. The ATC sounds pretty good, and much better than XP9. I'm still trying to see how it works though overall.

The user interface remains terrible, especially for those of us looking to migrate from FSX over to XP. It still very much has the look and feel of Mac, not windows, which may be part of the problem.

It's more Windows 3.1 than Mac. Again, Austin has admitted that he's probably the only person in the world who likes the X-Plane interface (no surprise since he designed it for himself) and that it's due for an overhaul. Whether or not that comes during XP10 or XP11 remains to be seen.

How does the average 'Joe' get the culture when it's not explained to people who go to the developers site? It may just be semantics but demo and beta mean completely different things outside the xplane world. There are demos for africa in the games world and they are working demos of the final product. I have never come across a demo which is actually a beta. The only people who are going to get mislead by this are the people that don't already know xplane. This is exactly what they would say, they are being mislead. Many people will think that the only reason a developer may use words in an uncommon way (ie demo instead of beta) is because they intend to mislead. I am not saying this is the developers intent but it should be rectified rather than just saying, oh, it's only semantics, if they were xp'ers they would 'get it'. Like any company who is working in the FS industry I wish them all the success so that my favorite genre continues for years to come. Some of the guys here really need to learn to take criticism on the chin if it's valid. I was keeping out of this argument but I thought I had to write something when I saw one of the developers a few posts up say the beta/demo was only semantics and we have to educate new comers to the 'way'. I really feel the best way to do that is to be upfront, dont use common words in an uncommon way. You said it needed clarification and thats why you posted but until you you make it clear on your website and reach all the newbies, not in page 7 of a thread that no newbie will read then that will not happen. PS, I am not against this methodology. I have had awesome games ahead of time through this approach, the difference was I knew about it and my expectations were set accordingly.

I think what "XPers" keyed in on is Mike's flirt with grade-school writing style with his statement...."How ironic it is that the flight models included in XP10 ARE HORRIBLE and UNREALISTIC" There are over 30 aircraft included and I'd be willing to bet he didn't try them all and do a point by point comparison. Expressing opinion (and it is his opinion) as a declarative is a writing 'no no' that I learned in 5th grade and is really where he screwed up with regards to inciting emotional responses from the...um...more emotional responders here. Now as the author of four of those default aircraft, I'd quickly acknowledge the shortcomings that exist in them with no problem....but to say they are H & U...especially given the fact that he probably has no experience in 95% of them...and also given the fact that he's sitting at a computer keyboard instead of a real one with no physical feedback whatsoever pretty much relegates what he THINKS he is perceiving to his brain only and he simply should have worded it such. Other than that, all his other observations were worded pretty good and "provable"....but he did slip up on a particularly sensitive area with the XPers.

Whatever the debate as to "demo" vs. "beta" vs. "alpha", the important thing to understand with X-Plane (and spread the word to new tire kickers who may not know)...

In the interest of spreading the word, this information should be posted prominently at the official website for "new tire kickers" who don't visit forums like these and will walk away with a bad taste in their mouth after trying the demo/beta.

I for one hope they DON'T change the interface.It's like buying any NEW software product your not familiar with... you just have it get use to how it works.The interface is actually pretty straight forward once you know how it works.@MM,ANYONE looking for a Flight Sim WILL check out forums and sites for info. NO ONE is going to just d/l it without knowing anything about it.