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Mike T

Initial review of Demo (Beta?)

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Night Lighting - XP10 has the best night lighting I've seen period. The night lighting hits the suspension of disbelief almost dead on and simply makes the lighting in FSX (and probably Flight) look amateurish by comparison. I'd say that night in XP10 can be down right breath taking.Day Lighting - Overall world illumination is a bit too dark and dull. Shadows do add a bit of dynamic and Laminar has nailed the sky / water reflections vs the ridiculous radioactive glowing water in FSX. The right mix of land and water can make for photo-realistic screenshots.Clouds - Worse than the default FSX clouds but XP clouds are no steroids and morph before your eyes. The clouds look like smoke and are too nebulous. Probably nothing that REX for XP10 cannot fix.Plausible World - Yep, its plausible alright but only to those who have never been in an airplane....or been to a populated area. Sorry, the world itself feels cartoonish and quite IMplausible it sucks the suspension of disbelief right out of the sim and a massive distraction. Instead of enjoying the scenery my brain kept repeating "Seattle doesn't look like that....Seattle doesn't look like that..." From ground level the towns and cities are not half bad and look much better than FSX default scenery. But from the air, it is pretty bad indeed. Blocks of square housing complexes sitting by themselves in the middle of no where is very post-apocalyptic. Reminded me of "The Postman" with Kevin Costner and the isolated bands of fortress communities built after WW III to keep out the murderous Holnists. Default KSEA - About as good as any detailed airport in FSX and very much on par with KSEA in FSX. Nothing special and worthy of improvement by a 3rd party. Global scenery textures - They have the hybrid hand drawn look of BluePrint Simulations airports if you know what I mean. Again, it gives the world a cartoonish flavor that sucks the life right out of the immersion factor.AI Aircraft - I'd say this is a non-starter for me because textures can be fixed with 3rd party global addons but the AI engine is hardcoded. I just don't get what they were thinking with this one. The number of aircraft that can be displayed is severely limited, and the ai aircraft models are pretty terrible in both shape and texture which makes the AI limitation even more baffling.GUI - Simply doesn't have the fit and polish of other user interfaces. It feels stark and utilitarian.Scenery Limitations - Another non-starter is the lack of any detailed airports outside of Seattle. Even with 3rd party addons it will many-many years to get to the point of detail we take for granted in FSX now, especially with the lack of developers in the XPlane space.Flight Dynamics - Laminar Research always looked down its nose at MSFS flight models due to its "Blade Element Theory" flight dynamics. How ironic it is that the flight models included in XP10 ARE HORRIBLE and UNREALISTIC. The excuse for this is that these are old flight models from v7. Then why put them there??? If you're bragging about your flight models then include flight models that back up the bragging. This is a HUGE disappointment.Terrain Mesh - Somemountains and hills have that rounded mathematically calculated look to them not at all reflective of real world mesh.Performance - Disappointing. For the sparse, implausible, AI limited world in XP10, why are frame rates so bad at high levels? The reason is that precious polygons have been wasted on street lamps, picnic benches, roadway signs, detailed bridge pylons, and other useless ground objects. The higher you raise the sliders the more street lamps, picnic benches, back yard Bar-b-Que grills appear and suck the life out of your computer. Again, I don't get it.To be fair, it is a "Beta" version and performance probably can be tweaked but the large design choices are not going away and those are the real things that totally kill XP10. I can't see simmers flocking to XP10 in numbers greater than the previous versions of XP and that means that they still won't get the developers to flock over to XP at numbers needed to make it a viable alternative to FSX / Flight. Look, I think the entire FS community is eager for alternatives to Microsoft and their silly antics and failure to listen to the community which is why people are willing to waste spend $10 per month on Prepar3d (FSX). However, XP10 brings less to the table than the default FSX does in terms of coverage areas and scenery realism, AI, and performance is currently very poor for what is displayed on the screen. So even though there is an eagerness for a new primary sim in the community I highly doubt that XP10 is it since I just can't see the flock of 3rd party developers coming over in droves which will be what is needed to make it a lasting success.

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Hey Mike,How many years/versions of X-Plane have you been flying? What pay-ware aircraft do you fly in XP?I'm looking to give all my Orbx scenery to a kid that wants a game to play.As stated, it's a Beta Demo.This is normal for XP, unlike MSFS, they Will Get it right!Enjoy your FSX!


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Wow, the beta's been out a whole 24 hours, is a 10 minute time-limited demo, and you do an in-depth review? Initial review you say? I don't think so. Your review was done two weeks ago by the sound of it.

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A review of a BETA, time limited version of X Plane that has JUST come out.Mike, come on. This is a joke post, right?Have you done a review of Prepar3d, yet?At least that's not in beta.I'm also interested in any other reviews you have done. Can you provide links?Also, what aircraft are you rated on and how long have you been flying?

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SERIOUSLY? So according to you people, why bother to take a car on a 1 hour test drive? Surely you can't tell anything about the car in an hour right? Surely you need to test drive the car for years before you can make a decision about it? Why bother to even release a DEMO - oh, I'm sorry, its no longer a DEMO its now a BETA. Apparently opinions are not valued unless they are in line with yours. So let me restate my uninformed opinon of the DEMO, whoops, BETA to align them with yours:Tried XPLANE, it has great promise, I see nothing wrong, its great. Best thing ever.Feel better now? *sigh*

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SERIOUSLY? So according to you people, why bother to take a car on a 1 hour test drive? Surely you can't tell anything about the car in an hour right? Surely you need to test drive the car for years before you can make a decision about it? Why bother to even release a DEMO - oh, I'm sorry, its no longer a DEMO its now a BETA. Apparently opinions are not valued unless they are in line with yours. So let me restate my uninformed opinon of the DEMO, whoops, BETA to align them with yours:Tried XPLANE, it has great promise, I see nothing wrong, its great. Best thing ever.Feel better now? *sigh*
Much better. Thank you for clearing it all up!Have a great day!

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So even though there is an eagerness for a new primary sim in the community I highly doubt that XP10 is it since I just can't see the flock of 3rd party developers coming over in droves which will be what is needed to make it a lasting success.
Seriously? You came to this conclusion, after the full hour of testing the beta? Sorry Mike, I'm not convinced.

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Seriously? You came to this conclusion, after the full hour of testing the beta? Sorry Mike, I'm not convinced.
+1I recall a HUGE backlash from readers in the REVIEW FEEDBACK forums when the reviewer wouldn't put in the necessary hours to test FSX products.Mike, if you're going to review, and compare X Plane scenery to "Blueprint Scenery", and whatever other comparisons you made, posts screenshots to back up your comparisons. Otherwise it just looks biased and subjective.You CANNOT review something, ESPECIALLY flight models, in 10 minute blocks within the first 24 hours of it being released.On top of all this, no mention was made of the quality of the new default aircraft.I'm assuming you fly, based on your avatar. So I don't question your flying experience. But if you are deeply rooted in the MSFS franchise, it would be very difficult to believe you are objective in a review for x plane.

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+1I recall a HUGE backlash from readers in the REVIEW FEEDBACK forums when the reviewer wouldn't put in the necessary hours to test FSX products.Mike, if you're going to review, and compare X Plane scenery to "Blueprint Scenery", and whatever other comparisons you made, posts screenshots to back up your comparisons. Otherwise it just looks biased and subjective.You CANNOT review something, ESPECIALLY flight models, in 10 minute blocks within the first 24 hours of it being released.On top of all this, no mention was made of the quality of the new default aircraft.I'm assuming you fly, based on your avatar. So I don't question your flying experience. But if you are deeply rooted in the MSFS franchise, it would be very difficult to believe you are objective in a review for x plane.
GoranWith the utmost respect, isn't releasing a demo (beta) and asking for feedback in order to improve/find bugs etc etc going to be subjective however you look at it i.e. what works for me may not work for you, and vice versa.....what i am excited about, you may not be, and vice versa....what i want to see in the sim, you may not, and vice versa.I read Mike's "review" and it came across (to me I might add!!) as fair and fairly constructive....there is alot in his post that I agree with although I agree he hasn't mentioned the default aircraft which are quality.However, your responses do alarm me a little, and FWIW, I hugely want XP10 to succeed and think that the "Flight Sim Market" is crying out for someone to pick up the baton that MS seem to have dropped a long time ago - I think that responses/replies in the manner in which they have been given are only going to turn people off from giving feedback if any criticism (whether you feel justified or not) is going to be seen as bashing XP10 just for the sake of it.Please take this post in the manner in which I intend, and that is with nothing but goodwill to you and the XP guys - I sure hope that XP is the success that your (and Austin's) passion and enthusiasm deserves it to be.Best WishesSteve

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+1I recall a HUGE backlash from readers in the REVIEW FEEDBACK forums when the reviewer wouldn't put in the necessary hours to test FSX products.Mike, if you're going to review, and compare X Plane scenery to "Blueprint Scenery", and whatever other comparisons you made, posts screenshots to back up your comparisons. Otherwise it just looks biased and subjective.You CANNOT review something, ESPECIALLY flight models, in 10 minute blocks within the first 24 hours of it being released.On top of all this, no mention was made of the quality of the new default aircraft.I'm assuming you fly, based on your avatar. So I don't question your flying experience. But if you are deeply rooted in the MSFS franchise, it would be very difficult to believe you are objective in a review for x plane.
I'm sorry sir but Mike is very right about the flight model. I think everything else looks nice but that is most important thing and it's not good at all. I fly a Cessna for training but it's even much stable and easy to control than an x plane aircraft. I bought XP9 last year but could not have a flight with it because of that.Also I think you guys should consider extending the demo time to around 30mn or so. Sometime even taxing to the runway can take you more than 5mn...

Sagga Toure
 

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... I am not bashing X-plane in any way. I have great respect for Austin and what he has done. He certainly flies a lot in the real world, owning two neat planes. However, as another real pilot here (me), XP never gives me that amazing in flight, virutal cockpit feeling that FS does.. and now with Active Camera for FS, never will... unless XP develops a similar camera system.... and after all these years ...... so many times, I have only booted up X-Plane only to hear the same old sound engine he's had since day one....... sorry, but after using FSX as well as the PMDG NGX, the X-Plane sound system is still far outdated and toy sounding


Peter James / Former Lead Designer Flight Unlimited III / ATP Beechjet 400A Captain

7000+ hours total flying time / Sager NP9280 notebook / i7 950 3.07 / 6 Gig / GTX280M

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GoranWith the utmost respect, isn't releasing a demo (beta) and asking for feedback in order to improve/find bugs etc etc going to be subjective however you look at it i.e. what works for me may not work for you, and vice versa.....what i am excited about, you may not be, and vice versa....what i want to see in the sim, you may not, and vice versa.I read Mike's "review" and it came across (to me I might add!!) as fair and fairly constructive....there is alot in his post that I agree with although I agree he hasn't mentioned the default aircraft which are quality.However, your responses do alarm me a little, and FWIW, I hugely want XP10 to succeed and think that the "Flight Sim Market" is crying out for someone to pick up the baton that MS seem to have dropped a long time ago - I think that responses/replies in the manner in which they have been given are only going to turn people off from giving feedback if any criticism (whether you feel justified or not) is going to be seen as bashing XP10.Please take this post in the manner in which I intend, and that is with nothing but goodwill to you and the XP guys - I sure hope that XP is the success that your (and Austin's) enthusiasm deserves it to be.Best WishesSteve
SteveYour post is most welcome and I accept it whole heartedly. I agree with almost everything you say. However, if it's about providing feedback, then it should be stated as such. I just cannot bring myself to believe that someone, who, I assume has never reviewed a product before (If I am wrong about this, I sincerely apologize to Mike) can "review" x plane 10, in 1 or several 10 minute blocks, within 24 hours and be objective about it...especially if it is a public beta. It took me half that time to find my sweet spot in the settings. I'm all for intelligent, rational discussions. And if I come across as snarky, arrogant, etc... I do apologize for that as well. It is not my intention. As a matter of fact, I try to help people should they ask for it.

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