but of course I don't have a vested interest in X-Plane

Then why are you here??

Do they? I wouldn't know.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/346619-pmdg-737ngx-review/page__view__findpost__p__2089010http://forum.avsim.net/topic/346619-pmdg-737ngx-review/page__view__findpost__p__2089029

And what makes you think his comments were dishonest and biased?

The fact he reviewed a demo less than 24 hours after it was released. And I never said he was dishonest. That's a harsh word. Biased? Well, if he can have an opinion, so can I, yes?

Really, the only person who appears unreasonable here is you with your "RAWR! Must defend X-Plane!" attitude.

"RAWR" attitude? LOL. Ok, you know best.

Thanks! Yes, that is what I'm saying..what airplane to offer up for the demo (if you have to strike a deal with a payware provider, do it!).

So Bert, what you actually were saying in the first place is, let's compare FSX payware to XPX default, right?

Goran, you are aware that games are reviewd within 24 hours of being released by internet sites all over the world every other day? A lot of these sites dont get versions ahead of time. You also asked what games get reviews when in beta? I would ask which ones do not? They all do. Every FPS game that has a beta period gets a review, I fly DCS a10, the certainly got reviews when it was in the public beta. It's the norm rather than the exception.

Goran, you are aware that games are reviewd within 24 hours of being released by internet sites all over the world every other day? A lot of these sites dont get versions ahead of time. You also asked what games get reviews when in beta? I would ask which ones do not? They all do. Every FPS game that has a beta period gets a review, I fly DCS a10, the certainly got reviews when it was in the public beta. It's the norm rather than the exception.

Well, I will certainly take your word for it and admit that I stand corrected.May I ask, do the demo's get reviewed by casual gamers or professional reviewers?A few more reviewer crucifictions...http://forum.avsim.n...ost__p__2089101http://forum.avsim.n...ost__p__2089117http://forum.avsim.net/topic/346619-pmdg-737ngx-review/page__view__findpost__p__2090007This is a good one...http://forum.avsim.n...ost__p__2089398This is not me on a tirade against PMDG. On the contrary, I to PMDG. This is just to show that when it comes to FSX and an FSX add on, very early, quick reviews get slammed. Yet when it's for X Plane, it's acceptable.Raises MANY questions.

So Bert, what you actually were saying in the first place is, let's compare FSX payware to XPX default, right?

Airlinejets, I find your attitude very strange!!!What I think Bert is trying to say, in his full post, and not in the cherry-picked quotes you use, is to release a demo, in time, with the best that X Plane can offer, and IF that takes a payware developer to come along and assist, then that could possibly assist by selling more copies, by impressing potential customers. At no point does he suggest comparing XP default to FSX payware!!You know, there are quite a few posters here who are trying to assist with advice, opinions, feedback without turning this into a flame war at all.RegardsSteve

Well, I will certainly take your word for it and admit that I stand corrected.May I ask, do the demo's get reviewed by casual gamers or professional reviewers?

Both, here are a couple beta reviews from a10 which I currently flyhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/211158/dcs_a10c_warthog_photoreal_flight_simulation_without_compromises.htmlhttp://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_460a.html The other two games I bought recently were red orchestra 2 and BF3. Both had a beta period and were reviewed by lots of sources which would be easy to google for.

Airlinejets, I find your attitude very strange!!!What I think Bert is trying to say, in his full post, and not in the cherry-picked quotes you use, is to release a demo, in time, with the best that X Plane can offer, and IF that takes a payware developer to come along and assist, then that could possibly assist by selling more copies, by impressing potential customers. At no point does he suggest comparing XP default to FSX payware!!You know, there are quite a few posters here who are trying to assist with advice, opinions, feedback without turning this into a flame war at all.RegardsSteve

Baloney!What you think or wish he was saying, and exactly what he means are two different things. Read his posts and read between the lines. If you really want to assist, send your comments and observations to [email protected], this is where you will most be needed.

There seems to be more anger toward the fact that he shared his review vs. Actually disagreeing with or proving wrong his accusations.We are all big boys and don't need censorship to protect us. Is anything Mike said untrue? If not then what's the problem?

There seems to be more anger toward the fact that he shared his review vs. Actually disagreeing with or proving wrong his accusations.We are all big boys and don't need censorship to protect us. Is anything Mike said untrue?If not then what's the problem?

We don't know. He hasn't put up screenshots to detail what he is talking about in some areas. And he has left out a few things as well.

Baloney!What you think or wish he was saying, and exactly what he means are two different things. Read his posts and read between the lines. If you really want to assist, send your comments and observations to [email protected], this is where you will most be needed.

Baloney!What you think or wish he was saying, and exactly what he means are two different things. Read his posts and read between the lines. If you really want to assist, send your comments and observations to [email protected], this is where you will most be needed.

Airlinejets-as a newbie to this forum you might want to know that Bert is an extremely experienced simmer, a reviewer, and about one of the most helpful people around, always going way out of his way to help other simmers.There is nothing "between his lines" except what a lot of us are thinking who are giving this demo a good shot (and that is what it states when you start the program "10.01r1 Web demo"). The fs series did hire outside aircraft vendors to do some of the default aircraft (off the top of my head I think Captainsim did the blue angel jet for one of them) and it does hugely impact your impression of the sim if you have a few excellent aircraft to demo it and show how it can shine.My opinion of this demo is quite favorable and I already purchased xplane10-but then I am flying the Carenado F33. If I wasn't I would probably have a very different feeling about the sim.

Both, here are a couple beta reviews from a10 which I currently flyhttp://www.pcworld.c...ompromises.htmlhttp://www.simhq.com...3/air_460a.html The other two games I bought recently were red orchestra 2 and BF3. Both had a beta period and were reviewed by lots of sources which would be easy to google for.

Well, I stand corrected. Thanks for the links!I still don't totally agree with his "review"

Betas don't have ten minute time limits. This is a demo just like the ten minute demo for XP9 was a demo.

Betas don't have ten minute time limits. This is a demo just like the ten minute demo for XP9 was a demo.

You can have the full version of x plane 9 installed, but without the DVD in the drive, it's a demo.This first release of X Plane 10 can be considered a public beta. The great thing about it is you can actually provide feedback to Laminar and it will be actioned. Try doing that for FSX.

bonchieEvery version of X Plane, when it was released, was a public beta. X Plane is in constant development and has been since day 1. The X Plane community constantly ask for certain features or enhancements to be added. This version of X Plane is a public beta as well as a demo version.

Well, now we are just getting into semantics. In that case XP10 on it's release day will still be a "beta."That's fine, but people are going to judge it regardless, as they should. You can't keep just saying "they'll update it" and expect people to never form opinions about the program in the meantime. It's going to happen.

Airlinejets-as a newbie to this forum you might want to know that Bert is an extremely experienced simmer, a reviewer, and about one of the most helpful people around, always going way out of his way to help other simmers.There is nothing "between his lines" except what a lot of us are thinking who are giving this demo a good shot (and that is what it states when you start the program "10.01r1 Web demo"). The fs series did hire outside aircraft vendors to do some of the default aircraft (off the top of my head I think Captainsim did the blue angel jet for one of them) and it does hugely impact your impression of the sim if you have a few excellent aircraft to demo it and show how it can shine.My opinion of this demo is quite favorable and I already purchased xplane10-but then I am flying the Carenado F33. If I wasn't I would probably have a very different feeling about the sim.

Please don't call me a newbie. Date of registration here at Avsim is meaningless. I was a member well before 2002. I agree about Carenado, brilliant stuff! Both in FSX ans X-plane. Just a quick question for you, are there any differences in flight dynamics from xp9 to xpx (Carenado F33)?