Well, now we are just getting into semantics. In that case XP10 on it's release day will still be a "beta."That's fine, but people are going to judge it regardless, as they should. You can't keep just saying "they'll update it" and expect people to never form opinions about the program in the meantime. It's going to happen.

Sorry, I edited my post to appear "less hostile" (for those that think I am hostile)Sure, you could say X Plane will always be in "beta". It's always being refined, optimized, added to. But let's be fair here. This is the very first public RC of X Plane 10. And it is being treated by many as a final release. "oh this is bad, and this is crap, and this terrible and because of all this, I won't be getting it and FSX will always RULE".

Please don't call me a newbie. Date of registration here at Avsim is meaningless. I was a member well before 2002. I agree about Carenado, brilliant stuff! Both in FSX ans X-plane. Just a quick question for you, are there any differences in flight dynamics from xp9 to xpx (Carenado F33)?

I am going by the 55 posts...Yes-I mentioned that the roll response which was one of the things I have never liked about past xplane's seems to be right on now. I also have stated that I find the general feel, and controllability much better on xplane than fsx for this Carenado aircraft-and it seems even better in xplane 10. However the numbers are more close and reliable on the fsx model-I don't know if Carenado will be able to fix this or want to. It is this aircraft however that brought me back to xplane and makes me excited for xplane 10. I think a couple high quality default aircraft both looks wise and performance wise are essential to sell the sim who have been used to this kind of quality for quite a while.

Well my curiosity got the better of me, and I broke my own rule about using torrents. My system is a dual core E6850 3.0Ghz (Can't Over clock -- It's a Dell!) a GTX 460 and 4GB memory. Initial load seemed just slightly longer than XP9. After joystick configuration took a flight in the 172 and frame rate was good (in the 20's) Stuttering seems to be an issue though, I tried cranking things up, and except for the stuttering surprising frame rates remained high in the low 20's. Stuttering was worse though. I counted about 11 747's and a couple of props at KSEA. If something could be done with the stuttering it could be good. Scenery wise, with default settings I would say the term building with Lego Bricks was an appropriate term, as the buildings on terrain looked like Lego city from the air. With the higher settings and many more objects drawn including trees and forests, things do look better, but it still seems a bit strange. Speaking of cities, where's Seattle? I wasn't expecting recognizable landmarks, but I thought there would be similar structures. It's kind of flat to say the least, or was it just not included in the demo? Same for Mount Rainer? I wasn't able to fly to it yet, but with visibility set to 100nm (A much welcomed feature) you should be able to view it from KSEA, especially in the air. I won't comment yet on the aircraft, as I'm still trying to get my joystick configuration straightened out. I really wish more work was done with the interface!!

Then why are you here??

There's a difference between interest and vested interest. You seemed to take the OP's comments personally and with some bitterness, so I have to assume you're the latter.

The fact he reviewed a demo less than 24 hours after it was released.

So? I guess I don't see the problem. He did say it was an "initial review" meaning that he was only giving preliminary comments, or at least that's how I read it. And, again, I thought the points he made were fair and reasonable. I really don't know why you've responded the way you have unless it's just the blind loyalty of a ###### at work.

And I never said he was dishonest.

You said you would have applauded his review if he had been honest and unbiased. Since you jumped down his throat instead, I can only assume you felt his comments were dishonest and unfairly biased.

There's a difference between interest and vested interest. You seemed to take the OP's comments personally and with some bitterness, so I have to assume you're the latter.

Me? Bitter? Didn't your parents ever tell you about assumptions?

So? I guess I don't see the problem. He did say it was an "initial review" meaning that he was only giving preliminary comments, or at least that's how I read it. And, again, I thought the points he made were fair and reasonable. I really don't know why you've responded the way you have unless it's just the blind loyalty of a ###### at work.

######?? Blind loyalty? I was asked to develop for FSX based on my work in X Plane. I refused purely because I don't have the time to sit here and optimize the mesh even more-so than I do for X Plane. I actually fired up FSX on Monday and had a good ole fly around in a payware aircraft I bought a while ago. It was nice. Today I spoke to an FSX developer for a couple of hours. I am also in regular contact with ANOTHER FSX developer who has been making add ons since FS2002. If I was consumed in blind loyalty, I would tell them all where to stick it. Not angry. Just correcting you.

You said you would have applauded his review if he had been honest and unbiased. Since you jumped down his throat instead, I can only assume you felt his comments were dishonest and unfairly biased.

Maybe your idea of jumping down someones throat differs to mine. I did criticize the fact he didn't provide screenshots to back up his review and the comparisons he stated and also the fact he failed to mention anything about the list of default aircraft. I also asked to see other reviews he has done. Yet to be provided.

The real problem is that reviews in this early stage are unwarranted. If you have legitimate gripes or failures, send them to Laminar, they expect you to. It's beyond me how anyone can make final assumptions on any piece of software on such short analysis. To refresh your memories, Mike stated, and I quote, "So even though there is an eagerness for a new primary sim in the community I highly doubt that XP10 is it since I just can't see the flock of 3rd party developers coming over in droves which will be what is needed to make it a lasting success."So according to Mike's extensive testing, this simulator is DOA, period. Let's wait, before making any assumptions, as to what the final outcome will be. Give Laminar a real chance to prove that all their hard work has not been in vain. I think they deserve at least that much. XPX as is , certainly isn't perfect, and the beta demo doesn't help us help them. Laminar needs to extend the time limit to at least 30 minutes if anyone is to make valid, rational comments on it's behavior.Now with all that being said, g'night!

I think a lot of grief would of been avoided if Laminar listed this as "BETA" and not "DEMO". To me, a "DEMO" implies an example of a finished product. I get the fact that "XP is never finished and is always beta" but new users wont. As I said to GoranM, XP is like a diamond, encased in a hard crust. If you have the will power to dig, youll be pleasently suprised at what you find. The problem is, new users dont always know of the diamond in the middle, or are simply not willing to put the effort in diging though the UI to find it. Its also a rather big leap of faith Laminar is asking new users. First, they are given a rough beta with a 10 min limit, and a limited area of flight and an extreamly complex and unfriendly UI with no instructions what-so-ever. Then they must be willing to part with $80 on a promis the rest will be just fine. I know a lot of the faithfull and long time followers of the XP series have faith, but not everyone will. For me, im not willing to part with my money yet with what I saw from the "demo", and it would take a MASSIVE overhaul of the UI for me to even consider it. If im spending more time in the UI then I am flying, im not having fun!

Some criticisms are rational and perfectly acceptable. But others, like when people compare X Plane to Google Earth (#####???) and the graphics look like something from the early 80's, are just downright ludicrous.

Google Earth? You cant compare the two since GE uses terabytes of data housed on massive servers and slowly streams it to the users in bite-sized chunks. It would be interesting to build a flight sim based on this, but who's going to pay for the bandwidth?

Google Earth? You cant compare the two since GE uses terabytes of data housed on massive servers and slowly streams it to the users in bite-sized chunks. It would be interesting to build a flight sim based on this, but who's going to pay for the bandwidth?

Actually, this is where Tileproxy shines. Although you cannot use GE anymore as a data provider, other well known map services are available. With a fast connection, this option provides some of the most realistic flight simulation experiences.

I downloaded GE for fun, and it has its own Flight Sim! For comparison, I took off in an SR-22 from KSEA, but was stuck behind ground traffic for 3 hours. Then I realized the guy in front of me was just painted on the ground......

I think next time if you find something bad about x-plane, shhh...... don't say it here. If you find something good about x-plane, yes! speak loudly here!

I too was disappointed with what I have seen in the demo but it is a beta demo and it should improve, it is however worlds away from FSX with all the addons I dont know why you would bother unless you were starting a sim setup from scratch, FSx absolutely kills this. I will buy the finished product and draw a better conclusion thenWayne

Well, I am Impressed!

• First with the Xplane Demo, and the improvements made comparing it to version 9. The only simulator, in my opinion, you should compare it with, in this stage of development.

• Second with the patience of people like "GoranM", who keeps trying to discuss on arguments, with the biased and unfounded remarks of the "usual suspects" who apparently are not able to look with a open positive mindset towards new flightsim developments, but keep polluting these Forums with there biased remarks, time and time again.

But back on topic, let's be honest one can't call this a review. It's a first, "quick and dirty", impression and personal opinion of the demo version of Xplane 10, No more and no less.Of course "Mr T" has a right to ventilate his first impression , but than he should call it so and not try to disguise it as "a review".I have also spend quite a few hours , or couple of ten minutes, trying this out and started to like it.Yes, at first it was pretty scary, planes diving left and right, but after a few sessions tweaking and fiddling with my yoke setting and off course, also important, the rendering options I was "hooked" and impressed by the possibilities and current state. (Even though the gui could be more user friendly) But in it's current state with the ongoing development and the "shifts" happening in the flightsim market, I will certainly buy it!Also the mentioned flight models where quite good, but you must do the setup properly and don't compare it with the standard planes of FSX, they are just "lumpy" and made for first timers (sky) road user.People seem to forget that this is meant to be a flight simulator!And keeping in the seasonal (usa) spirit:To all the narrow minded "lurking trolls" in these forums, I would like give you a gift from my grandmother:"If you don't have anything positive to say, don't say anything at all" Please?

That was exactly my point. The review seems to be disguised as a personal and biased opinion. That's why I wanted to see his other reviews...if he has done any.Thanks for the kind words! They are very much appreciated. That's all I want from the naysayers. A legitimately open mind. I'm all for discussion. As long as it's rational and open minded.

Perhaps if the thread title was called "My initial observations of the XP10 demo/beta" the unfortunate tone of the thread may have been averted?No need for castigating an opinion right? **edit**Personally I won't be touching this until it goes retail. And has a USB dongle (like my XP9 install) or whatever to keep from messing with the discs.**edit**Two XP-related reviews on the way. Much delayed for personal reasons but hopefully in time for Xmas stocking stuffer options!