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Slow Reverse Activation

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Before SP1C it seemed that NGX reverse thrusters activated correctly but now with SP1C, they will not activate until N1 has SLOWLY spooled down to N1=29.1% and only then I see the amber REV (actuating) and then a couple of seconds later green REV allowing me to increase reverse thrust by holding down F2 key. But by that time I am usually below 70K with autobrakes only and have no need for reversers! I am throttles idle at 20 agl as I flair. I immediately verify F1 then F2 as nose wheel lands and nothing happens even if I hold down F2 until N1 has SLOWLY spooled down.

 

I have never flown 737's. REAL WORLD NG DRIVERS: Is this the way it is supposed to work on the NG? When I see the landing videos of NG the reversers sound as if they activate right away when levers are pulled. This is how it was working before SP1C.

 

I have uninstalled completely and reinstalled twice but still experiencing the problem. BTW, if I do an aborted takeoff, however, they do deploy right away as they should.

 

If any one else has had the problem and found a solution then I invite them to enlighten me.

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Hi Craig,

 

I have levers for thrust activation and they pretty much activate anytime I'm in idle mode. On landing I release the leavers at 60 and slow with auto and pedal brakes

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I've had this quirk for a while. Try this and see if it solves your problem. On touchdown (and I mean all wheels on the ground), press F1, then press and hold F2. Sounds like your engines are still in flight idle at touchdown and when you press F2, the engines retard to ground idle then reverse.

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I have the same issue, and have yet to find a way to resolve it. I think Ryan's suggestion above to use the F1 key before engaging reverse may have some merit. I do know that the delay is related to PMDG modeling a few different phases of idle thrust depending on the active flight scenario (flight, approach, and ground), and that unfortunately, FSX thinks you are on flight or approach idle when the wheels first touch down. Whereas on an aborted takeoff (or just about anytime on taxi before takeoff) you get instant reverse response because the "active" idle thrust situation is ground idle. It's either a PMDG or FSX limitation.

 

What I don't understand is, I've seen plenty of video evidence in these forums or youtube of other PMDG NGX pilots activating idle thrust instantaneously on touchdown, and I'm pretty sure they also have the latest SP.

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Watched very carefully this time and Ryan is right. Closing throttles before touchdown ONLY brings N1 to FLIGHT IDLE and not GROUND IDLE. Never seen this in RW but again I am not familiar with RW NG. With the NGX anyway it seems that once full touchdown then F1 must either be pushed or held down until N1 further spools to GROUND IDLE before Reversers will fully deploy(?) Again, the problem is that this eats up precious runway real estate that could be critical in a reduced braking, short runway situation. Some aircraft (Concorde, for example) have no autobraking system and rely entirely on powerful reverse thrust to slow down and that means they MUST be able to deploy IMMEDIATELY on touchdown. Again, the question, is this DOUBLE throttle cutback real world in the NG?

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In the real NG (taking a guess as I've never flown the NG real world either), I believe it's tied into the radio altimeters with the reversers. Basically in FSX, since between when you pull the power to idle and when ground idle would be activated, the throttles don't move I'm guessing the NGX doesn't throttle down. For example, I usually pull to idle at 100ft RA. Say ground idle activates at 10ft RA. Since there was no throttle movement, the NGX will allow the throttles to be pulled to ground idle at 10RA, but is detecting the trottles incorrectly slightly above idle position. This could be a quirk tied into manipulating FSX to give both thrust modes. Instead of changing the thrust mode, PMDG artificially put a stop for flight idle that is removed and allows the throttles to be pulled all the way back for ground idle.

 

In the real NG (a guess again), when the throttles are fully closed, the thrust is automatically held at the correct idle for the phase of flight. So even if the throttles are fully closed, once you pass the RA limit for ground idle, the engines automatically throttle back to the new correct idle limit.

 

Confusing I know, but so are the subtleties of transport catagory aircraft.

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I believe it's tied into the radio altimeters with the reversers.

 

No. It's connected to air/ground sensors on the landing gear. FCOM 14.20.7.

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Does anyone how this can be setup on the Saytek throttle?

There is only one switch for the reversers. I would like to to be able to land at idle and simply pull the reversers and have effective ones. I had been wondering why I was getting close to no reversers after landing.

 

Thanks

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No. It's connected to air/ground sensors on the landing gear. FCOM 14.20.7.

 

It would be nice if PMDG would confirm once and for all that this is an undesirable issue with the NGX. There must be some way for PMDG to program the thrust level to be at "ground" idle the instant the wheels touchdown so that we can get reverse thrust more quickly, and realistically. I'm surprised at how little I hear from other users about the long delay of reverse thrust in the NGX, aside from this topic of course, and I must say it does mar an otherwise perfect product.

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In the real NG (taking a guess as I've never flown the NG real world either), I believe it's tied into the radio altimeters with the reversers. Basically in FSX, since between when you pull the power to idle and when ground idle would be activated, the throttles don't move I'm guessing the NGX doesn't throttle down. For example, I usually pull to idle at 100ft RA. Say ground idle activates at 10ft RA. Since there was no throttle movement, the NGX will allow the throttles to be pulled to ground idle at 10RA, but is detecting the trottles incorrectly slightly above idle position. This could be a quirk tied into manipulating FSX to give both thrust modes. Instead of changing the thrust mode, PMDG artificially put a stop for flight idle that is removed and allows the throttles to be pulled all the way back for ground idle.

 

In the real NG (a guess again), when the throttles are fully closed, the thrust is automatically held at the correct idle for the phase of flight. So even if the throttles are fully closed, once you pass the RA limit for ground idle, the engines automatically throttle back to the new correct idle limit.

 

Confusing I know, but so are the subtleties of transport catagory aircraft.

 

I thougth flight idle remained till 3 seconds after touchdown.

 

Bert Van Bulck

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I'm surprised at how little I hear from other users about the long delay of reverse thrust in the NGX, aside from this topic of course, and I must say it does mar an otherwise perfect product.

 

I have it, but I hardly ever fly into limiting runways, so it is more of a nuisance. I mostly only use idle reverse anyway.

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It works perfect here with my Saitek throttle Q:

 

ngxreverserFSUIPC.png

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It works perfect here with my Saitek throttle Q:

Exactly how I have mine set up, but what does the 100 parameter do? If it speeds the decrease up, it's exactly what I've been lookin for.

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I usually turn off the auto throttle on final approach so at touchdown its certain that the throttles are at idle, the reversers deliver the power I ask for without fault.

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I do pretty much the same as Airbusman, AT's are off on short final as well as AP, throttles back to idle. Reversers work consistently. I have an idle switch at the low end of each of my throttle levers to ensure idle. The idle switches are tied in to the thrust reversers and reverse action can only happen if idle switches are closed. I remember once though, there was a discussion on landing gear also affecting idle power, but the details elude me at the moment.

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Update. I have an active trouble ticket on this "delayed reverser" issue and have corresponded with both Paul and Ryan on the issue. They maintain that for them it goes to idle reverse immediately on pressing F2 and then in a second or two will show "green" and holding down F2 at that point will accelerate into reverse as shown on the ECAS.

 

My computer crashed and has required me to reinstall everything from VISTA 64 SP1 on up and when I got to the point of installing NGX again, Paul and Ryan assisted me so that I know I have a correct installation of SP1C. Everything operates seemlessly EXCEPT the same problem with Reverser activation as in my OP. I do not use throttle controller but just the mouse and keyboard so there can be no interface or settings issues that are causative. I have replayed landing over and over again from a saved situation and I get the same results as from the original flight. I have tried re-pressing F1 before F2 after touchdown. I have tried initiating everything before nose wheel lands (as is SOP in Concorde) as well as waiting until nosewheel is on ground. I continue to hear the engines spool down but I see nothing on the ECAS even if I press F2 several times. Eventually I do get "amber" REV and then within a second, "green" REV but when I then hold down F2 key again I get a delay before I see ECAS finally indicate "accelerating" reverse. Thinking it may be AS2012, I have been flying these approaches without it activated. I do have UT2 and GSX still active but the airport I am using has no AI traffic and GSX should not be a factor until I am on the ground and activate it for gate selection. I am stumped!

 

I am going to try same approach with PMDG B744 and Superpro 80 to verify that I do not have same issue with them.

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Thanks for responding with your testing, especially by working directly with PMDG via the ticket route. If you are having the same issue without any interference with joystick or other peripheral controllers, something really is amiss. Until now, I was under the impression that my joystick throttle setup, combined with FSUIPC, was the culprit. Now I'm certain that this is a bug, one that it seems the majority of users experience. I wish I knew how some, like PMDG themselves, are able to get realistic quick F2 reverse upon touchdown.

 

It would be most beneficial if PMDG came along and addressed this directly, but I have a feeling we will just have to tolerate this behavior. Chalk this up as a byproduct of their modeling of the various idle phases and a conflict with the internals of FSX code. Good thing that most of the airports I frequent seem to prefer idle reverse, because it's at the short runways where this annoyance becomes a major issue...

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Hi A.J.!

 

Just heard back from Paul. He suggested that I move FSX key control slider FULL RIGHT for F2. I was under impression that this was a "repeat key" function and should be kept Full Left but I cannot find documentation to support my opinion. I have asked that he confirm that it is to be FULL RIGHT before I try it.

 

BTW, I was not aware that this was a pervasive problem. I thought it was just a handful of us who were experiencing it. This seems to be the only thread that addresses it.

 

While awaiting Paul's response, I discovered that my motherboard driver had been updated and on a whim I rolled back to my earlier driver and everything on the computer seemed to be much more responsive. I tried the PMDG B744 and the reversers kicked in right away by holding the F1 key down for a second or so on touchdown and then holding the F2 down. Tried the same thing with NGX and got reversers to work correctly. I think the idea that it is still at flight idle is the source of issue. Holding the F1 key down seems to put it to "ground" idle faster and thus enable more immediate response to reversers. Maybe setting the F2 to full repeat is the ultimate answer but I did notice that F1 key does not have that same option within FSX and I think it also may need it if Paul's suggestion has merit.

 

If he and Ryan are indeed getting proper performance with the F2 slider set to the right then that is something that should be included in the "introduction" pdf or at least clarified in this forum because it was the first I had heard of it. The other factor for me, however, is that I am using VISTA 64 and they have Windows 7-64. There are some definite documented issues with VISTA that may be affecting FSX performance in ways that I am unaware.

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I have PFC hardware throttles and have this issue as well. I always cut A/T and A/P prior to landing and manually land. I cut power to flight idle around 70ft or so and still must roll some distance on the runway till REV will engage. When I have autobrake set above level 2, I am less than 90kts usually before REV will throttle up.

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Completed next round of testing. Did not yet use Paul's suggestion of setting F2 slider to the right as of yet. But after reinstalling old motherboard driver (circa 2009) on my MSI 8400, I find that response to everything is lightning fast and that has solved the NGX problem. It is obviously not a PMDG issue, it is a user hardware/software issue apparently. I do find that I have to hit the F1 key first on main touchdown and then instead of just hitting F2 for reverse idle I am finding that I must hold F2 until amber then green. I then can press and hold it again and it will rapidly accelerate into reverse. Using this technique I have been able to actuate to reverse idle by Vref-15 or just after nosewheel touchdown. I have run 3 approaches, one with complete autoland and 2 with manual landing. The results have been consistent. I will try with F2 slider right later on today to see if that simplifies the procedure at all.

 

It is indeed complicated now with so many different hardware/software configurations being used for FSX. Something in my new updated driver must have been causing the problem for me. I wish the solution I found would have been of assistance to others but unfortunately it was unique to my setup. But at least this eliminates an FSX or PMDG issue. It is sad that many of the new updates are not tested to work with older legacy software before they are released and recommended. The plain fact is that "new and improved" all too often really means, "never as good as it once was!" lol

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Paul confirmed slider right is what he recommends for Brakes and for F2. Tried and everything seemed to respond as it should but no different from before sliders were to the right. My big problem was the driver update which I am making note from now on not to update anything no matter what the "hype" promises (PMDG updates excepted, of course).

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For the record- I tried out these settings exactly as Dario has them in the picture below. I now have a super quick, much more satisfactory reverse thrust activation.

It works perfect here with my Saitek throttle Q:

 

ngxreverserFSUIPC.png

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For the record- I tried out these settings exactly as Dario has them in the picture below. I now have a super quick, much more satisfactory reverse thrust activation.

 

Same here. Configured it last night and problem solved.

 

ps: Thanks Dario :Peace:

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I set mine to the above post also and seems to work well on my homemade throttle, but I notice when my reversers activate (on the ground), the speedbrake (green) light comes on. Any ideas why that is?

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Any comment by the developers on this topic? I did all possible settings but I always get a delay, as soon as I touch down, in thrust moving from flight to ground idle and thus in reverse activation. I usually happen to get the amber REV about 7-10 seconds after I activate the reverse (by that time the airplane has eaten a lot of runway...). The FSUIPC setting of "Throttle Cut" when the button is released doesn't work, because throttle cut means that if I release the button the reverse stows, the throttles go back to ground idle and the reverse thrust is not maintained. One could say "don't release the button", but if I don't release it, the reverse thrust goes to full, thing that is absolutely not realistic because in the real airplane the reverse is actuated until the detent, that is about 40-45%, not to full power...

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