Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Bobsk8

How much do you use rudder pedals?

Recommended Posts

I posted about a week ago that I had located where I had stored my Ch rudder pedals about 5 years ago when I retired from FS9. I hooked them up, calibrated them with the new CH software, and they work great. As I have been flying around the last few days, I realize that I am not using them very much, taxi and takeoff, aerobatics, which I don't do much of ( yet) and landings, especially crosswind landings. Total time maybe 1-2 minutes out of a flight that might be 1-2 hours. ( It probably was about the same with FS9, since I flew mostly heavy jets)

 

Prior to resurrecting the pedals, I was using the twist grip on my Extreme 3D pro for rudder control. My question is, being that the pedals are around $125-150, do you feel it is worth the investment considering how little they might possibly be used flying around?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

It depends on the plane, for me. I'm all over the pedals in the Stearman, use them a fair bit in the Maule, and barely touch them in the RV-6.

 

I seem to remember our resident RV-6 builder/owner referring to the real thing as a "feet on the floor" kind of plane, with little or no rudder input needed for most turns.

 

But anyway, I would not want to go without them. I can't slip well at all with a twist-stick, and would really miss the toe brakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

twist grip is never an option for me, it feels so unnatural....and with FLIGHT I've been mostly using the mouse and the "A" / "D" keys for rudder inputs. The damping is so well done that I can align with rw axis enough to get me gold on the landing challenges, even under considerable x-wind components...

 

That said, I decided I have to get back my rudder pedals... Saitek Pro... It's just a question of time. I am sure I will use the x52 Pro a lot more when I get them back :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot! Part of the skill is to keep the ball centered in a coordinated turn...not sliding sideways. Some airplanes require substantial rudder to keep them coordinated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If yar wanna simulate flyin then yar gotta simulate flyin :Peace:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot! Part of the skill is to keep the ball centered in a coordinated turn...not sliding sideways. Some airplanes require substantial rudder to keep them coordinated.

 

"Step on the ball" my CFI said . Talking%20Ear%20Off.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it would be impossible to do consistently well on Amy landing challenge without proper use of the rudder pedals. frankly, I think a scoring glitch would have to reward poor technique.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think is will always be a personal choice - whether to fly with rudder pedals or not. As far as I know, there was only one airplane built that did not have rudder pedals - the Ercoupe. A friend bought one and asked if I would check him out in it. It was really scary on final in a cross wind with no real method of last minute runway alignment. The ercoupe had super stong landing gear that swiveled once it hit the ground. Made an awful noise and could break you back in extreme conditions.

 

I have never considered not having pedals, I have the CH pedals in the attic, Saitek Pro's in the closet and Saitek Combat Pedals hooked up. I recommend you try pedals for a week or so, even in MS Flight. One of the most experienced real world airline pilots is also probably the most experienced MS Flight user only uses a mouse for fllght controls. Go figure.

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the most experienced real world airline pilots is also probably the most experienced MS Flight user only uses a mouse for fllght controls.

 

Whow! I am not alone in my exquisite taste for mouse use in MS FLIGHT!!!!... or... is he a PIG?!...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whow! I am not alone in my exquisite taste for mouse use in MS FLIGHT!!!!... or... is he a PIG?!...

 

I'm not sure what you mean with your comments. He is Fred.

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what you mean with your comments. He is Fred.

 

Ray

 

AH! A Real Pilot then.... thought you were joking... (When Pigs Fly....)

 

That's great to confirm! And yes, now I recall his answer to my other thread regarding the use of mouse for flying....

 

So, I am not alone, although I intend to start using the x52 when I get the rudder pedals... But, if he finds the mouse to be a good controller, then I believe we should really accept that it was very well programmed into MS FLIGHT, and that was one of my points with that thread...

 

I find it too, just as I did with Condorsoaring... The mouse in that other sim provided much more realistic input than the joystick I had by that time, a Saitek CyborgX and no rudder pedals. I also used the keyboard for the rudder inputs because Condorsoaring has an option to turn off autocoordination, and I really preferred to use the mouse for pitch and bank, and the keyboard for the yaw. Well, MS FLIGHT allows it too, although it still inputs some autorudder...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the Saitek Combat Pedals - and I use them mainly when taxiing, taking off, and landing - along with the toe brakes now that we have them to help in ground steering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use my Saitek Combat rudders all the time. In fact I use them so often that I doubt if I am using them as I should... :wink: Since the last update the airplans tend to roll left a lot more and I notice that, almost without thinking about it, I am using rudder to keep the plane level all the time. I sometimes fly on and on with a little bit of rudder and even some cornering without touching my joystick... I doubt if the rudder is meant for that but as I said, I almost do it without thinking. Keeping the rudder a bit left or right for a long time is so easy to do while holding the joystick slightly left or right is annoying...

 

I used to use the twist rudder on my joystick but I never liked it because it was too rough: it was very hard to do (and hold) minor corrections, while it's a breeze with the pedals.

 

So, yes, I use them a lot. All the time. Too much maybe (maybe a RW pilot can tell me if that's so or not).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use my Saitek Combat rudders all the time. In fact I use them so often that I doubt if I am using them as I should... :wink: Since the last update the airplans tend to roll left a lot more and I notice that, almost without thinking about it, I am using rudder to keep the plane level all the time. I sometimes fly on and on with a little bit of rudder and even some cornering without touching my joystick... I doubt if the rudder is meant for that but as I said, I almost do it without thinking. Keeping the rudder a bit left or right for a long time is so easy to do while holding the joystick slightly left or right is annoying...

 

I used to use the twist rudder on my joystick but I never liked it because it was too rough: it was very hard to do (and hold) minor corrections, while it's a breeze with the pedals.

 

So, yes, I use them a lot. All the time. Too much maybe (maybe a RW pilot can tell me if that's so or not).

 

When I flew a C-152, and 172, I used to practice flying with just the rudder pedals for directional control Figured it might come in handy if something happens to the aileron control, which thankfully never happened to me. Causes a bit of uncoordinated flight but you can keep the wings level that way.

 

The one thing I noticed with the twist grip on my 3D Pro, is that I was sometimes applying rudder when I didn't want to, as I was moving the ailerons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AH! A Real Pilot then.... thought you were joking... (When Pigs Fly....)

 

. . . . That's great to confirm! And yes, now I recall his answer to my other thread regarding the use of mouse for flying....

. . . But, if he finds the mouse to be a good controller, then I believe we should really accept that it was very well programmed into MS FLIGHT, and that was one of my points with that thread...

 

 

I don't necessarily buy into the fact that one user's choice of controller confirms anything about how very well programmed something is.

 

I do know that MS Flight is marketed and promoted for the use of a single mouse as the controller. Just knowing that one could expect that a mouse should work properly in the game.

 

Got a Mouse? You can Fly! is the main slogan for MS Flight so I would fully expect it to be well programmed as you say.

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I know, there was only one airplane built that did not have rudder pedals - the Ercoupe.

 

There's a wonderful little book you might be interested in Ray (and others who want to learn about stalls / spins)... All About Stalls and Spins by Everett Gentry. A real hoot to read...

 

He talks about the Ercoupe... and the process of trying to force a spin, becoming inverted and completely out of control. "I felt there wasn't any plane that would not do a spin. That is, if they had two wings -- one on each side -- they would spin."

 

The guy is / was a real nut and just incredible to read about his knowledge in this area.

 

Edit: Ah... sorry... the Ercoupe story is courtesy of an airshow pilot by the name of Bob Livingston

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think anyone who's flown a real plane will plug in the rudder pedals before they even get to the yoke. A twist joystick is sort of ok... but making coordinated turns with a twist stick is near impossible in my experience. You can of course turn on the autorudder, but this makes crosswind takeoffs and landings impossible. So I'd say a set of good rudder pedals is every bit as important as a stick/yoke.

 

There is one idea though (not sure if you can do this in Flight), as much as a hated doing it, when my rudder pedals broke and I had to wait a couple of weeks for a new set. I set up the autorudder shortcut as the Scroll Lock key, and had it off by default (when starting a flight). This let me taxi and takeoff in any conditions, then I just hit scroll lock at some point during the climb to engage the autorudder. You even get a light on your keyboard :) Just turn it off again on approach for landing and get on that twist stick. I find the twist somewhat usable for crosswind takeoffs and landings but not at all for smooth coordinated turns. It's just not precise enough to keep the ball in the middle, but this way at least you can easily turn the autorudder on/off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, yes, I use them a lot. All the time. Too much maybe (maybe a RW pilot can tell me if that's so or not).

 

Yep, basically all the time in smaller aircraft. Some of the more modern stuff needs far less rudder input, almost to the point of none for a normal turn, but all the stuff I've flown needs good feet. Remember that every time you move the stick sideways, the rudder must go with to keep things coordinated. I've often sang the praise of flight sims for real world training, unlike many instructors who think they breed bad habits. If there is ONE bad habit they definitely do breed however, it's lazy feet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That scroll key assignment to good for lots of temporary things, mainly because of the light. Good tip.

 

Ray

 

I will go looking for the Everett Gentry Bob Livingson book. Sounds like good reading. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

 

Ray

 

There's a wonderful little book you might be interested in Ray (and others who want to learn about stalls / spins)... All About Stalls and Spins by Everett Gentry. A real hoot to read...

 

He talks about the Ercoupe... and the process of trying to force a spin, becoming inverted and completely out of control. "I felt there wasn't any plane that would not do a spin. That is, if they had two wings -- one on each side -- they would spin."

 

The guy is / was a real nut and just incredible to read about his knowledge in this area.

 

I was out flying cross country one weekend in the Ercoupe and we came across a very busy grass strip that we had not paid nuch attention to in years of flying in the area. We circled around and they had maybe 6 or 8 Ercoupes in the pattern. Heck, I didn't know there were that many flying in all of Florida at the time.

 

Anyway, just as we touched down a big white puff flew up and we looked at each other and said oops. We had just spoiled the annual ercoupe fly-in by winning their spot landing contest. Of course, they had to do it all over again as we had not paid the entry fee,

 

Duh.

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use the rudders for coordinated turns about 95% of the time. During straight and level flight I usually have my feet on the floor, unless I need to hold a rudder correction, and put them on the rudder pedals for turns. Use of the rudders has gotten to the point where it's instinctive. CH Pro Pedals.

 

Flying a helicopter will really teach you to use the pedals.

 

Hook

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another great book, which I strongly encouraged everyone thinking about taking up flying to read from cover to cover is Stick and Rudder. It is the bible of flying as far as I am concerned. http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/0070362408

 

A few weeks ago someone recommended 'Flying thru Midnight" a story about flying over Laos in the early Viet Nam days. You can get it for a penny + s/h at Amazon. This is also a great flying story. About as interesting as the story is the last few pages where he talks about actually drafting the book and all the editing and such required to get it in print.

 

Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to fly a '46 Ercoupe and I can tell you, I was glad it was converted to rudder pedals. Everyone I knew at the time that had Ercoupes had converted. With the coordinated controls, it had some funny handling particularly in crosswind landings and taxiing.

 

As for rudder pedals in Flight, I use them the same as I did in real life. Takeoffs, landings, taxiing, and making pedal turns in the air. They are also very handy when flying with a quartering cross wind. Also, you can't properly slip into some of the smaller strips without them.

 

To each his own though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, yes, I use them a lot. All the time. Too much maybe (maybe a RW pilot can tell me if that's so or not).

 

Anytime you are sticking in aileron to turn you should be coordinating the turn with rudder. "Problem" is with many of today's trainers, some don't require very much unless you get cranked over... so the student in their mind basically says, "rudder??? we don't need no stinkin' rudder" which can come back to bite them when doing things like power-on stalls.

 

I think anyone who's flown a real plane will plug in the rudder pedals before they even get to the yoke.

 

I'm the oddball I reckon as I used an XBox360 controller for years (4? 5?) in FSX before getting the Saitek X-65F. No Rudder Pedals... I use autorudder and am quite content...

 

Only plane I have where I (really) could have used rudder to compensate for x-wind is the DH.88 Comet (which is very sensitive to x-wind on the ground). And for that I use the upwind engine to keep the nose straight. Ok... a few times in places like Norway with a blistering x-wind wishing I wasn't flying "the Ercoupe way".

 

We had just spoiled the annual ercoupe fly-in by winning their spot landing contest.

 

:dirol:

 

Also, you can't properly slip into some of the smaller strips without them.

 

This is exactly right... can't slip, can't practice single-engine flight (correctly) in a twin and sure, would be nice in those heavy x-winds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anytime you are sticking in aileron to turn you should be coordinating the turn with rudder. "Problem" is with many of today's trainers, some don't require very much unless you get cranked over... so the student in their mind basically says, "rudder??? we don't need no stinkin' rudder" which can come back to bite them when doing things like power-on stalls.

 

Well, I do of course use rudder when I use aileron. My 'problem' is that I also use rudder to fly WITHOUT aileron. When I am flying low and slow through a valley I only use rudder to correct my heading or to make small turns, so without ever touching the aileron. I wonder if that's ok or really not done in real life. It works like a charm in Flight but well... that doesn't mean it's realistic. :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites