As far as I know, there was only one airplane built that did not have rudder pedals - the Ercoupe.

 

There's a wonderful little book you might be interested in Ray (and others who want to learn about stalls / spins)... All About Stalls and Spins by Everett Gentry. A real hoot to read...

 

He talks about the Ercoupe... and the process of trying to force a spin, becoming inverted and completely out of control. "I felt there wasn't any plane that would not do a spin. That is, if they had two wings -- one on each side -- they would spin."

 

The guy is / was a real nut and just incredible to read about his knowledge in this area.

 

Edit: Ah... sorry... the Ercoupe story is courtesy of an airshow pilot by the name of Bob Livingston

I think anyone who's flown a real plane will plug in the rudder pedals before they even get to the yoke. A twist joystick is sort of ok... but making coordinated turns with a twist stick is near impossible in my experience. You can of course turn on the autorudder, but this makes crosswind takeoffs and landings impossible. So I'd say a set of good rudder pedals is every bit as important as a stick/yoke.

 

There is one idea though (not sure if you can do this in Flight), as much as a hated doing it, when my rudder pedals broke and I had to wait a couple of weeks for a new set. I set up the autorudder shortcut as the Scroll Lock key, and had it off by default (when starting a flight). This let me taxi and takeoff in any conditions, then I just hit scroll lock at some point during the climb to engage the autorudder. You even get a light on your keyboard :) Just turn it off again on approach for landing and get on that twist stick. I find the twist somewhat usable for crosswind takeoffs and landings but not at all for smooth coordinated turns. It's just not precise enough to keep the ball in the middle, but this way at least you can easily turn the autorudder on/off.

Another great book, which I strongly encouraged everyone thinking about taking up flying to read from cover to cover is Stick and Rudder. It is the bible of flying as far as I am concerned. http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Rudder-Explanation-Art-Flying/dp/0070362408

So, yes, I use them a lot. All the time. Too much maybe (maybe a RW pilot can tell me if that's so or not).

 

Yep, basically all the time in smaller aircraft. Some of the more modern stuff needs far less rudder input, almost to the point of none for a normal turn, but all the stuff I've flown needs good feet. Remember that every time you move the stick sideways, the rudder must go with to keep things coordinated. I've often sang the praise of flight sims for real world training, unlike many instructors who think they breed bad habits. If there is ONE bad habit they definitely do breed however, it's lazy feet.

That scroll key assignment to good for lots of temporary things, mainly because of the light. Good tip.

 

Ray

 

I will go looking for the Everett Gentry Bob Livingson book. Sounds like good reading. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

 

Ray

 

There's a wonderful little book you might be interested in Ray (and others who want to learn about stalls / spins)... All About Stalls and Spins by Everett Gentry. A real hoot to read...

 

He talks about the Ercoupe... and the process of trying to force a spin, becoming inverted and completely out of control. "I felt there wasn't any plane that would not do a spin. That is, if they had two wings -- one on each side -- they would spin."

 

The guy is / was a real nut and just incredible to read about his knowledge in this area.

 

I was out flying cross country one weekend in the Ercoupe and we came across a very busy grass strip that we had not paid nuch attention to in years of flying in the area. We circled around and they had maybe 6 or 8 Ercoupes in the pattern. Heck, I didn't know there were that many flying in all of Florida at the time.

 

Anyway, just as we touched down a big white puff flew up and we looked at each other and said oops. We had just spoiled the annual ercoupe fly-in by winning their spot landing contest. Of course, they had to do it all over again as we had not paid the entry fee,

 

Duh.

 

Ray

I use the rudders for coordinated turns about 95% of the time. During straight and level flight I usually have my feet on the floor, unless I need to hold a rudder correction, and put them on the rudder pedals for turns. Use of the rudders has gotten to the point where it's instinctive. CH Pro Pedals.

 

Flying a helicopter will really teach you to use the pedals.

 

Hook

Another great book, which I strongly encouraged everyone thinking about taking up flying to read from cover to cover is Stick and Rudder. It is the bible of flying as far as I am concerned. http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/0070362408

 

A few weeks ago someone recommended 'Flying thru Midnight" a story about flying over Laos in the early Viet Nam days. You can get it for a penny + s/h at Amazon. This is also a great flying story. About as interesting as the story is the last few pages where he talks about actually drafting the book and all the editing and such required to get it in print.

 

Ray

I used to fly a '46 Ercoupe and I can tell you, I was glad it was converted to rudder pedals. Everyone I knew at the time that had Ercoupes had converted. With the coordinated controls, it had some funny handling particularly in crosswind landings and taxiing.

 

As for rudder pedals in Flight, I use them the same as I did in real life. Takeoffs, landings, taxiing, and making pedal turns in the air. They are also very handy when flying with a quartering cross wind. Also, you can't properly slip into some of the smaller strips without them.

 

To each his own though.

So, yes, I use them a lot. All the time. Too much maybe (maybe a RW pilot can tell me if that's so or not).

 

Anytime you are sticking in aileron to turn you should be coordinating the turn with rudder. "Problem" is with many of today's trainers, some don't require very much unless you get cranked over... so the student in their mind basically says, "rudder??? we don't need no stinkin' rudder" which can come back to bite them when doing things like power-on stalls.

 

I think anyone who's flown a real plane will plug in the rudder pedals before they even get to the yoke.

 

I'm the oddball I reckon as I used an XBox360 controller for years (4? 5?) in FSX before getting the Saitek X-65F. No Rudder Pedals... I use autorudder and am quite content...

 

Only plane I have where I (really) could have used rudder to compensate for x-wind is the DH.88 Comet (which is very sensitive to x-wind on the ground). And for that I use the upwind engine to keep the nose straight. Ok... a few times in places like Norway with a blistering x-wind wishing I wasn't flying "the Ercoupe way".

 

We had just spoiled the annual ercoupe fly-in by winning their spot landing contest.

 

:dirol:

 

Also, you can't properly slip into some of the smaller strips without them.

 

This is exactly right... can't slip, can't practice single-engine flight (correctly) in a twin and sure, would be nice in those heavy x-winds.

Anytime you are sticking in aileron to turn you should be coordinating the turn with rudder. "Problem" is with many of today's trainers, some don't require very much unless you get cranked over... so the student in their mind basically says, "rudder??? we don't need no stinkin' rudder" which can come back to bite them when doing things like power-on stalls.

 

Well, I do of course use rudder when I use aileron. My 'problem' is that I also use rudder to fly WITHOUT aileron. When I am flying low and slow through a valley I only use rudder to correct my heading or to make small turns, so without ever touching the aileron. I wonder if that's ok or really not done in real life. It works like a charm in Flight but well... that doesn't mean it's realistic.

Why is it any harder to slip with a twist stick? The program doesn't care if the axis is on the physical joystick or under the desk. Just curious why some think pedals are better than sticks. I admit that it could only be perception because with the Stearman I felt like breaking out my old Saitek R440 steering wheel. I use to use its brake and gas pedals as rudders. Now that I think of it I also have some really old Thrustmaster pedals but they use the old style game port which my current rig does not support. My dog would also get really upset if I used pedals because she loves to stay under my desk and subject me to gas warfare.

In real life, I use rudders all the time in every situation where it's appropriate.

 

I only have the stick twist on my AV8R, so In the video game world, I hardly use them at all. I could care less if my turn from base to final (or from heading 260 to heading 285) is a little uncoordinated. I only use the rudder for crosswind take offs and landings, forward slips, and walking tracers around an enemy aircraft.

 

If I had pedals, I would probably use the rudder more. But, where I consider a joystick a "definitely buy one if you can, even if it's a cheapy" accessory, I wouldn't go out and invest in rudder pedals. Of course, I also fly on a laptop that gets set up on the coffee table for 30 minutes at a time, so rudder pedals don't really fit into my plan anyway.

 

Well, I do of course use rudder when I use aileron. My 'problem' is that I also use rudder to fly WITHOUT aileron. When I am flying low and slow through a valley I only use rudder to correct my heading or to make small turns, so without ever touching the aileron. I wonder if that's ok or really not done in real life. It works like a charm in Flight but well... that doesn't mean it's realistic.

 

It can be ok to use the rudder to nudge the plane's heading around a bit in level cruise. Watch the Turn Coordinator... if you aren't moving the ball out of the center, you probably are not overusing the rudder. If the ball is moving, you need to be using the ailerons and rudder together.

 

 

You can do it, but it is a very bad habit to have. Using the rudder to turn the aircraft means you are in a skid. If the skid is very small and you are in cruise flight you aren't going to get in trouble. On the other hand if you are slow and/or banked you are setting yourself up for a sudden entry into a spin.

 

I had the opportunity to perform this for training. It is abrupt and there is no warning in a 172. One sec you're upright and uncoordinated, the next you're rolling over and entering the spin. This is not good in a tight space!