King Air B200 - Available!

[iflygary 17]

@Scott - very well put. There's only one problem - Carenado doesn't pay any attention to these (or any other) posts. We have seen the same problems (maybe different "switch" but same idea) from back before the 208 release. And yet with each new release we see the same issues over and over again. A rant would be more appropriate at this stage, but that too goes ignored. The most frustrating thing is, these bugs CAN be fixed, but he chooses not to. The evidence is in the next release which has much the same bugs as the previous one. I get the feeling he just doesn't care. He releases a product, a lot of people run right out to buy it because "it has great textures" (and it does - no argument from me there), but that's where it stops. The customer fixed the 208, and frankly, it is the customer that is the beta tester for his airplanes (don't believe me? How is it then that with each release there is a bug list a mile long within a day of a release - tell me beta testers would not have picked up on at least half of these items and had them fixed prior to release!). The inevitable service pack comes out a week or two later, then nothing. If it's not fixed right off, it's too late. He's moved on to his next project and this one is but a distant memory. That's despicable, but hey, he keeps raking in the money because there are enough people out there who will buy it for the textures only and not care about the rest. As long as that is happening, the bar will remain low. F1's textures are not quite as good as Carenado's, but their bug list after a release is minscule compared with Carenado's. Same with PMDG (although their textures probably are as good). Same with Real Air, Flight Replica, and so on. They don't release nearly the quantity of airplanes that Carenado does, but there's a reason for that. They have a lot more respect for their customer and their own product than does Carenado. Again, don't believe me? How many times has Carenado come to their forum to address concerns and issues? I mean genuine ones, like how to make the wx radar work, or why fuel gauges aren't reading correctly. Other developers attend their own forums (even the unofficial ones), and typically all bugs that can be fixed, usually are. Seldom do I hear the excuse, "FSX limitation" outside of Carenado. It does come up, but not nearly that often.

 

So Scott, your points are well taken. At least, by some. Unfortunately they are falling on deaf ears from those that matter. People will continue to buy half-finished products and the bar will remain low. The only thing you can do is stop buying and look elsewhere, as I see you have done. As someone said on one of the forums (and has been repeated), I'm tired of flying textures. I've heard RW and virtual-only pilots both say they still want switches to work that are supposed to work. Amen. And yes, I stopped buying Carenado after the 210 debacle. I've flown a 210 and the landing attitude on that plane is totally, completely out to lunch, as is the approach attitude and the flaps effects. He was made aware of that by email, and from numerous, numerous posts here. The response has been... silence. My response has, and will continue to be to keep my wallet in my pocket.

 

Wow,

 

Glenn that is pretty disappointing. I have to agree with you ( and Scott of course) we are the customer. We are the reason these guys are in business. I love Carenado's planes and yes I do have to make my own tweaks to make them fly better. I had NO IDEA Mr Carenado doesn't even check these posts or that fact that the 210 was that far off base. It's such a shame cause I suspect if Carenado got their flight dynamics right and even partnered with other developers to fix thier issues, NO ONE and I mean no one would be able to touch them. Guess right now, we'll just have to count on each other for advice and guidance huh? :huh:

 

Gary

[scottb613 1,188]

Thanks guys - honestly I was fully expecting to be slammed for my criticism...

 

Obviously - I care or I wouldn't have taken the time to write this up and I wouldn't check in here regularly - as I find myself doing... For the life of me I don't ever recall any dialog between Carenado and anyone... Just the short little terse announcements and then we are left to fend for ourselves...

 

Ahh well - I need the Real Air Duke anyway...

 

Regards,

Scott

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

Quote: "tell me beta testers would not have picked up on at least half of these items and had them fixed prior to release"

 

There seems to be a misconception that Beta testers get problems fixed... they can only point out problems to the developer, and believe me, they do..

 

It is Carenado's decision to fix, or not fix issues that get identified.

[z06z33 763]

It looks pretty!! As for flight dynamics their C90 is pretty close. I'm a realworld pilot I've flown the C90 along with other planes mostly light twins 340's and Navajos even got a little right seat time in a DC-3. I cant speak for the B200 never flown one, but their C90 is pretty darn close in real life the C90 is no Extra 300 but it aint a school bus either the roll rate at full defection is pretty impressive for that large of a plane! The DC-3 on the other hand, that thing is a school bus after flying it for an hour my arms would be worn out because the controls were so heavy. My point is you can never replicate a plane exactly in FSX since regardless they all feel numb I fly by feel in the realworld and in fsx thier is no feeling the plane. Systems wise Carenado is lacking but you can still go through all the start up steps of the C90. As for their glass it may not be spot on but it works well enough as for their G1000 I hate those things in the realworld and feel the same about them in FSX thats why I didn't buy the their 182. In the end Carenado planes look great and are pretty cheap compared to some planes out there that don't even look as good.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

I would agree with the above.. regarding the C90.

 

B)

[Guest BeaverDriver]

There seems to be a misconception that Beta testers get problems fixed... they can only point out problems to the developer, and believe me, they do..

 

It is Carenado's decision to fix, or not fix issues that get identified.

 

Absolutely true! My point is that they don't use beta testers in the classical sense. Their customers are the beta testers. That's why the bugs you see on release aren't picked up prior to release. Now some other developers do this to some extent as well, but they label the product as "Beta". They don't pass it off as a finished product. ALL developers issue service packs following a release. None of them are perfect, nor does anyone expect them to be. But the bugs found typically aren't for the most basic of things that are usually picked up by the beta testers. But, when the "release" version is actually a beta, one can't expect better.

 

As for Carenado fixing the bugs, they have a horrible record of that. They fix the "odd" thing, but come nowhere close to making it a fully operational unit as others do. That's the sad part and where the customer gets ripped IMO. But, if people are happy enough with really good textures and and functionality that is really lacking, then it's their $$$, except it doesn't force Carenado to raise their own bar so we all suffer in the end. But I completely agree with one (several actually) poster when they said Carenado should stick to steam. There are a lot of airplanes yet to be done (Navajo, Aztec, 421, etc., etc.) that would be right up their alley and are ones nobody else is doing. If they want to go head to head with the likes of F1 though, they will get eaten alive because while F1's textures aren't quite as good, their functionality is light years better on release.

[Drumcode 1,893]

Lol

 

I am being patient...

 

Being a LOLerpool fan you have to be!

 

 

Bird looks great, I'm getting it tonight!

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Absolutely true! My point is that they don't use beta testers in the classical sense. Their customers are the beta testers. That's why the bugs you see on release aren't picked up prior to release. Now some other developers do this to some extent as well, but they label the product as "Beta". They don't pass it off as a finished product. ALL developers issue service packs following a release. None of them are perfect, nor does anyone expect them to be. But the bugs found typically aren't for the most basic of things that are usually picked up by the beta testers. But, when the "release" version is actually a beta, one can't expect better.

 

As for Carenado fixing the bugs, they have a horrible record of that. They fix the "odd" thing, but come nowhere close to making it a fully operational unit as others do. That's the sad part and where the customer gets ripped IMO. But, if people are happy enough with really good textures and and functionality that is really lacking, then it's their $$$, except it doesn't force Carenado to raise their own bar so we all suffer in the end. But I completely agree with one (several actually) poster when they said Carenado should stick to steam. There are a lot of airplanes yet to be done (Navajo, Aztec, 421, etc., etc.) that would be right up their alley and are ones nobody else is doing. If they want to go head to head with the likes of F1 though, they will get eaten alive because while F1's textures aren't quite as good, their functionality is light years better on release.

 

Good posts. When I purchase a Carenado product, I've grown to accept that things won't be perfect. For the type of flying I enjoy, they really don't have to be. The Carenado aircraft for me serve as VFR platforms for enjoying the sense of flight, and for me flight isn't just sitting behind a cockpit--it's looking around, enjoying the view, having the sense that I am in a real aircraft. That's where Carenado shines--their visuals give you the sense you are "there". For real pilots, I am pretty certain their bugs and issues would be a big dissapointment. The only aircraft I've ever flown are Light Sport aircraft and trikes. They aren't meant for going places--they are meant for enjoying what comes with being airborne. By far, most of my time in real aircraft has been in the role of a passenger. I've crisscrossed this country and have crossed the oceans so many times that there's hardly a corner that I haven't seen from above. Carenado's aircraft give me that place that I want to be.

 

I do feel that my needs alone don't satisfy what many members here want to see from Carenado. They do need to fix their issues if they want to continue to stay in this marketplace. They are starting to price their products at that level where customer service has to be top notch. If they continue to soil their reputation with buggy products, the customer's wallets will go elsewhere. For me, I don't care unless there is a glaring bug that crashes MSFS. But I feel for those who feel like they are getting burned, and I hope members here use Carenado's email system and send them links to these threads. Also understand that English is not their first language. If someone knows Spanish and can really articulate how they feel, I think it would be a big help.

 

Regards,

 

John

[Spartan0536 49]

I have seen the flight 1 textures. thus far I am not that impressed, however Flight 1 is still in development and finalization of their B200, if they make better textures and have a glass cockpit, I will gladly buy.....

 

However I think Milviz wins here, their King Air 350i will be THE KING AIR to have.

[LeeL 272]

 

Being a LOLerpool fan you have to be!

 

 

Bird looks great, I'm getting it tonight!

 

Haha true. We take patience to a whole new level

 

 

[Guest BeaverDriver]

@John - I think you make a very good point here. As long as one thinks of Carenado as Just Flight with somewhat better textures, then I think the right crowd buys in and they get their money's worth. The good thing with JF is they don't pretend to be the top end aircraft developer out there, but are quite up front and say that they aim at the mid-level, "average" simmer who really just wants to hop in and go. I like that about them - they tell you straight out what they are aiming at. Now I don't remember Carenado ever saying they were aiming at any one market in particular, so perhaps I'm being a bit unfair in some ways. If they are aiming at the mid-range crowd, then I'm placing too high an expectation on them. It is I who should be looking elsewhere and not demanding they up their quality. Their textures do hint of a very high end product, but companies like PMDG, Majestic, Flight Replica, etc. do deliver very high end graphics but take that quality all throughout their airplanes. So maybe that's where I got "fooled" (although I came to PMDG after Carenado, not before). Maybe us real world pilots should be looking elsewhere, unless we too wish to treat this more "light heartedly" and not have too high an expectation of this developer. There is room for both to be sure, and your sentiments make as much sense as those who wish a "hard core", systems heavy machine that will come as close as possible to the real thing.

 

Appreciate your response there John. I think that helps put things in perspective. Thanks :smile:

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

Absolutely true! My point is that they don't use beta testers in the classical sense. Their customers are the beta testers.

 

My point is that they do use beta testers, but do not always fix the issues that are identified during beta test..

 

I speak from personal experience here..

 

Now I don't remember Carenado ever saying they were aiming at any one market in particular, so perhaps I'm being a bit unfair in some ways. If they are aiming at the mid-range crowd, then I'm placing too high an expectation on them.

 

That is a tough one, I really like some of their airplanes, but Carenado has shown no sign of being overly obsessed with getting the avionics and other systems up to 100% accuracy..

[scottb613 1,188]

Hi Bert,

 

One things for certain - wherever I go - you're always in the thick of it - trying to to help people out and make things better... Much appreciated - sir...

 

Regards,

Scott

[RWFeldman 159]

Just wish they would leave the bezel out of the VC EHSI so I can add a full size good EHSI. Since they can't make one.

[flying_bob 38]

Can you please that would be great.

 

Lee

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/370380-added-a-real-nice-sandel/

 

hopefully I can contact the guy as he helped me with the c90 to get this into c90