A Little Prayer for all the Victims and Families in Connecticut

[psolk 3,077]

The "off-topic" aspect was crossed days ago...

Edited December 18, 2012 by psolk

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Ok Guys,

 

As a serious participant in this thread I don't want it to become personally contentious between members and have to consider locking it. So far we have all done a credible job of being mindful of the legitimate viewpoints of others, taking into account the degree of trauma and emotion many of us have felt. Please be respectful and considerate of others opinions, in all matters.

 

Kind regards,

[spilok 1,139]

I hugged my Grandchildren on Saturday. I hugged them tighter than I ever did. I can't stop thinking about this horrific event, and I only hope that we can be more proactive in dealing with those that appear in need of mental help.

Being a former teacher for 10 years, I can't imagine this happening when I taught. The world is a very different place now.

Stan

[simmerhead 885]

The world changes every beating second, but it is a less violent place now than it ever was.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html

[Sky Trail 13]

May the good Lord keep them under his wings like a bird nests its little ones.

[HiFlyer 9,396]

I hugged my Grandchildren on Saturday. I hugged them tighter than I ever did. I can't stop thinking about this horrific event, and I only hope that we can be more proactive in dealing with those that appear in need of mental help.

Being a former teacher for 10 years, I can't imagine this happening when I taught. The world is a very different place now.

Stan

 

I went to school in a time when we all had to pass through metal detectors to get in. We stood in long lines every day at school, and I was always furious at the idiots that kept trying to smuggle in things they shouldnt, and were regularly dragged off by security. Even the fire exits were chained closed, though I dont believe the adults realized that if you pushed the doors hard, we were tiny enough to still escape through the cracks. (Typical adult maginot line thinking)

 

Even with those precautions in place, I never had a real sense of danger as a child; especially not danger from an adult. Adults were parental figures to me; guardians you called on if you got lost or were hurt or scared, or needed protection or knowledge. This pretty much applied to all ambulatory adults who were not actively foaming at the mouth. (And especially to women)

 

What a terrifying world it is now. I dont know how many times I have had to look down into little faces these last few days to try and explain this scarey world we've created. Inside, there is an almost personal sense of failure rolling around in my stomach, as if by silence and apathy, I was complicit.

 

The children absorb the assurances and explanations silently, but I can see the little gears working behind those somber eyes. Innocence is being lost. Mine too, I think.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

I went to school in a time when we all had to pass through metal detectors to get in.

 

I went to high school a few years before you did but in our year we were about the first to have police officers in the schools. What they did for our school was have a Principal and two Vice-Principals, one of our Vice-Principals was a Police Officer.

 

Having him meant he had the power to investigate and make arrests, so useful for dealing with gangs and drugs...etc. He and I actually got along really well as he wasn't an educator, I was a pretty street smart kid and he took a liking to me at that time. Looking back he was a good guy. he just wanted to see me get through and do well in life.

 

Today they just place two regular on-duty police officers in that school as part of the Toronto Police Services program. The same two every day so the students get to know them. Community Policing does work as the police are more then just a uniform. Having them in the schools establishes a rapport between Students and Police.

[ailchim 216]

But in part this is because of its large population: the US falls to 26th, behind many Latin American and Caribbean countries, when the figure is expressed as a rate per 100,000 people.

 

 

Thanks for the statistics.

 

Throwing the United States up against some of the most lawless and violent countries in the world is hardly fair.

 

Other raw statistics for murders by firearms per 100,000 of population are:

 

USA 2.97

Australia 0.14

England & Wales 0.07

Canada 0.51

France 0.06

Germany 0.19

Italy 0.71

Japan 0.01

Netherlands 0.33

New Zealand 0.16

Spain 0.20

[xplanery 250]

But why would they need a religious wrapper if it was just politics? And what politics (unless just hating the USA is politics)?

Well, I think the main thing about US that made these extremists upset about the US was probably its support towards Israel and then all the other tension around Middle East... You haven't seen that many big attacks against western countries that haven't been involved in NATO although they represent western culture just like US does, so yes I would say there's definitely politics behind their hate against United States, not simply religion.

 

But yeah this thread indeed isn't about 9/11 so let's get back into stuff related to this tragedy...

////

 

Those statistics indeed look really bad for the US, even in here Finland with high amount of guns / population and more violence than most other European countries we still have gun murders / 1000 people rate of only 0.45.

[Raindance 25]

"But yeah this thread indeed isn't about 9/11 so let's get back into stuff related to this tragedy.."

 

Agreed & endorsed

[Chase 304]

Criminals don't get to determine my rights. Any more so than people flying planes into buildings. We have a Second Amendment. Ill no more endorse limits on it or any other of the Bill of Rights. I have an absolute armory full of Semi Automatic rifles and hand guns. Not from fear of anything other than enjoyment and the odd wild life that decides I'm in the wrong spot. I carry them in my truck at all times and I'm also a CCL holder. This isn't the UK or Europe we have different beliefs and rights afforded through our constitution and I want it to stay that way.

 

Fully agree. Instead of blaming guns, how about we blame morals? God has been taken out of everything and it's shunned to even bring religion up anymore, no matter what religion it is. I am one of those folks that is extremely open minded and accepting to all, but I dare not change myself to appease other people. That being said, yes, I will tell people Merry Christmas. What ever happened to teaching kids good and evil and faith (no matter what it is)? Our youth are seriously troubled and handicapped before they even begin life because they lack moral education. But forgive me, this post will offend people because I'm wrong to think anything other than guns was to blame here.

 

No matter which side of the fence you are on with religion, you have to admit, it does bind us together. The kind of unity I talk about is this, remember after 9/11 how nobody in this country was "German, Italian, Greek, African, etc" but was an American. It didn't last long and now we are divided again as a country. It's a shame.

[Great Ozzie 101]

Throwing the United States up against some of the most lawless and violent countries in the world is hardly fair.

 

You kidding me??? I said once the U.S. is the world's melting pot. People the world over come here. And they come with their varied cultures... some violent, some peaceful. We have a huge influx of peoples (from the countries the psolk listed).

 

As for violence... heard of MS-13? "We have." Better hope they don't get a foothold in e.g. London. Go check this wiki Present-day countries of origin for numbers of "illegal aliens" in the U.S. - and then compare how many on that chart psolk posted.

 

Mexico is the new Colombia (re: the drug violence / how Colombia was 20+ years ago). We have "mucho problemos" w/ our southern neighbor that is spilling over onto our side of the border.

 

(How all this relates to school shooting idk.)

 

 

The world changes every beating second, but it is a less violent place now than it ever was.

 

Wow I have to look at that with a jaundiced eye...

 

 

I went to school in a time when we all had to pass through metal detectors to get in.

 

Worst thing you would have found in my H.S. ever would have been a firecracker. Never guns. No detectors. No security. This for a school of around 1200 students. I think things have changed and not as Gene Roddenberry might have hoped that - man has a "more evolved sensibility" kind of way.

 

 

Edited by psolk, Yesterday, 08:06 PM.

 

To answer your (removed) question... yeah... in a thread in "Hangar Chat" that goes a bit OT... which is already OT and continuing that way... I do not see the problem refuting what someone posts. Didn't dis' the Raindance... Didn't have a fit or insult him... just a simple reply... I believe he kept it just as civil.

 

As Stephen said, as long as it does not "become personally contentious between members" I do not much see the problem... I don't fear the thread being locked.

 

Now the agreement was made to move on from that (sub) topic... so yes let's move on. No harm, no foul.

[HiFlyer 9,396]

Today they just place two regular on-duty police officers in that school as part of the Toronto Police Services program. The same two every day so the students get to know them. Community Policing does work as the police are more then just a uniform. Having them in the schools establishes a rapport between Students and Police.

 

Security was new to me at the time, part of my introduction to high school. It also seemed to be mostly a city thing, as years later when we moved, my little brothers school was still wide open, and you could pretty much wander in and walk around until somebody noticed you and asked could they help you. I thought it was great, as it reminded me of my elementary school, but I guess those times are probably gone forever.

 

Back here in the present, I think things are about to change again. There is a tone from the media and some politicians that feels like a groundswell, and I suspect "something" is going to be done legislatively about assault weapons at the very least.

[Great Ozzie 101]

Our youth are seriously troubled and handicapped before they even begin life because they lack moral education.

 

And I wonder how much impact removing "God" from our society has had on mental health. When "push comes to shove" and things get to "critical mass" in an individual's life... and the person has feelings to seek revenge for being bullied etc...

 

Do we listen e.g. to St. Paul when he says, "Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord."

 

Do we take a step back and think before acting to "love your neighbor as yourself".

 

but I guess those times are probably gone forever.

 

Just like the "age of innocence" is over with Aviation (due to 9/11) so now with our elementary schools. Was so unbelievable and unthinkable when it happened at Colombine and Virginia Tech (sans U of T). Schools were supposed to be safe havens (in my neck of the woods) where that kind of violence was not part of our world.

[FrankG2625 9]

Fully agree. Instead of blaming guns, how about we blame morals? God has been taken out of everything and it's shunned to even bring religion up anymore, no matter what religion it is. I am one of those folks that is extremely open minded and accepting to all, but I dare not change myself to appease other people. That being said, yes, I will tell people Merry Christmas. What ever happened to teaching kids good and evil and faith (no matter what it is)? Our youth are seriously troubled and handicapped before they even begin life because they lack moral education. But forgive me, this post will offend people because I'm wrong to think anything other than guns was to blame here.

 

No matter which side of the fence you are on with religion, you have to admit, it does bind us together. The kind of unity I talk about is this, remember after 9/11 how nobody in this country was "German, Italian, Greek, African, etc" but was an American. It didn't last long and now we are divided again as a country. It's a shame.

I take issue with your statement in that you say that because I was raised without faith, I am an immoral person. I like to think I adhere to the same morals as the rest -- I don't cheat, steal, kill etc. I would never even remotely entertain the idea of killing somebody, and I don't have a religious backing for my convicitions. I should be subjected to religious indoctrination just to be sure I don't go off and shoot people? It's common sense and basic human empathy, not a belief in God.

 

I'm not offended, by the way, I just don't agree with your solution. I understand that you have a right to express your thoughts, I just don't think I should be subjected to rules based on something I don't believe in.

 

I do, however, believe that this tragedy could have been avoided with a more developed mental healthcare system. I think that in the end, that's what failed him. Jew, Christian, Muslim, Athiest, if he had mental problems, his upbringing is not to blame. There are plenty of Christians who have killed senselessly, as are there plenty of Muslims, Athiests, and Jews. To say that he lacked morals is avoiding responsibility as a country for his mental wellbeing and psychological care.