Don't you see it though? If we give up one of our rights, it sets precedent. Why not start attacking our other rights then. Never going to happen. The second amendment was also drafted to protect citizens against undemocratic government. It's easy to bash guns when you've never needed one to protect yourself or others from a violent perpetrator.

 

I can recall a case a few years ago where an 80 year old man had a concealed handgun on him in his driveway. This wasn't illegal as he was on his own property however a local ordinance in Chicago banned handguns. A masked gunman attempted a robbery on him, so this old man with a cane pulled out his handgun and shot, but missed. The gunman fled uninjured. The politicians didn't care about anything but prosecuting this old man despite him almost getting killed. Luckily due to a strong and relentless freedom fighting organization like the NRA, he wasn't charged after much debate.

Don't you see it though? If we give up one of our rights, it sets precedent. Why not start attacking our other rights then. Never going to happen. The second amendment was also drafted to protect citizens against undemocratic government. It's easy to bash guns when you've never needed one to protect yourself or others from a violent perpetrator.

 

I can recall a case a few years ago where an 80 year old man had a concealed handgun on him in his driveway. This wasn't illegal as he was on his own property however a local ordinance in Chicago banned handguns. A masked gunman attempted a robbery on him, so this old man with a cane pulled out his handgun and shot, but missed. The gunman fled uninjured. The politicians didn't care about anything but prosecuting this old man despite him almost getting killed. Luckily due to a strong and relentless freedom fighting organization like the NRA, he wasn't charged after much debate.

 

Sometimes ideals can outpace the demands of reality. Fortunately there are other (though perhaps not as well funded) organizations to attempt to balance the NRA's agenda. I believe balance is a good thing.

Fortunately we have a Constitutional Amendnent to counter those folks bolstered by a relatively recent decision by the Supreme Court. Firearms aren't going to ever be banned here unless you repeal an Amendnent so important to the founding fathers that its number 2 in the bill of rights. That's no more going to happen then the First being repealed. And you can bet there are many senators and representatives from districts like mine that know their jobs are on the line should they break with the values of the people the represent. Texas, Montana or Alaska don't share the values of California, New York etc.

I believe balance is a good thing.

 

As do I, but balance does not mean obstructing a constitutional right. It's disgraceful how the day of the tragedy media outlets and far left politicians used this awful timing to boost their agenda. These innocent children were savagely taken from this world and all the media could report on was politics. Then they wondered why the NRA waited several days to make a statement. There is no honor or respect in taking advantage of this situation. Who ever said earlier in this post that the media is way out of control with their priorities and reporting standards was very correct.

 

At this time I've said all I have to say about this. I'm actually very surprised I even participated in this thread beyond my prayers for the victims. This country needs to reflect as we are doing, but we need to go beyond looking at gun control because no laws would have stopped this from happening. Thinking otherwise is naive and ignorant. God bless these kids and their families and I pray my country figures this out.

Did anybody here actually propose banning all guns?

Did anybody here actually propose banning all guns?

 

That's the goal of places like the Brady Bunch etc. the NRA is well funded because there are 190 million gun owners in America. My point is I'm not willing to cede anymore rights for the catch all cause of safety. You keep letting it happen it never stops.

 

Also this has been a civil discussion which is amazing. Please know I don't mind sharing my viewpoints especially when you're not feeling attacked so kudos to everyone. I think it speaks volumes for this community.

Mmm,

 

Even if it's just a survey, that's not what the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago says

 

However, by 2010 household gun ownership dropped to 32.3 percent of U.S. households reporting having any guns in the home -- the lowest level ever recorded by the General Social Survey.

 

And the NRA "only" has 4.3 million members.

That's the goal of places like the Brady Bunch etc. the NRA is well funded because there are 190 million gun owners in America. My point is I'm not willing to cede anymore rights for the catch all cause of safety. You keep letting it happen it never stops.

 

Hmmm..... that sounds like what drove up gun sales prior to the inauguration of the current president. Last I heard he had expanded gun rights.

 

The "Brady Bunch" mission statement says:

 

We are devoted to creating an America free from gun violence, where all Americans are safe at home, at school, at work, and in our communities.

 

The Brady Campaign works to pass and enforce sensible federal and state gun laws, regulations, and public policies through grassroots activism, electing public officials who support common sense gun laws, and increasing public awareness of gun violence. Through our Million Mom March and Brady Chapters, we work locally to educate people about the dangers of guns, honor victims of gun violence, and pass sensible gun laws, believing that all Americans, especially children, have the right to live free from the threat of gun violence.

 

The Brady Center works to reform the gun industry by enacting and enforcing sensible regulations to reduce gun violence, including regulations governing the gun industry. In addition, we represent victims of gun violence in the courts. We educate the public about gun violence through litigation, grassroots mobilization, and outreach to affected communities.

 

Sounds like a perfect foil for the NRA and certainly not very sinister, but if you can show actions indicating otherwise I would be happy to take a look. Until then, I would provisionally support them and await their input on the current situation.

Not every gun owner is a member of the NRA. Well take 30 percent that's 90 million gun owners giver or take. How many are murderers? I'm not at home right now to dig into the Brady Campaign or those like it but what's sensible to them is not to me. Gun violence pales in comparison to drunk driving, smoking, etc. I personally am unwillinging to cede on this front quietly. All I can do is vote for those that think like me, write my representatives and donate to causes that further that agenda. We will see what happens. I believe in the Second Amendment, I support it and believe we've got enough laws in place. Others don't. That's fine.

It has been my belief through all of this that the United States already has more then enough laws in its books that it doesn't need sweeping legislation because of this one incident. What it has to do is make it current rules and regulations work.

 

The only thing I would like to see changed is instead of spending considerable amount of money (billions of dollars) on trying to pass gun legislation that will do nothing, why not use that money to go towards increasing funding for Mental Health programs. That to me is better use of tax payers dollars.

It has been my belief through all of this that the United States already has more then enough laws in its books that it doesn't need sweeping legislation because of this one incident. What it has to do it make it current rules and regulations work.

 

The only thing I would like to see changed is instead of spending considerable amount of money (billions of dollars) on trying to pass gun legislation that will do nothing, why not use that money to go towards increasing funding for Mental Health programs. That to me is better use of tax payers dollars.

 

And we know it does nothing how, exactly? The atmosphere is so charged that the subject is almost taboo. Agencies that have anything to do with gun control or even make reports on the gun situation tend to get slapped hard by legislators backed by lobbyists. ATC got nearly taken apart, and after the CDC put out reports about causes of death in America (including by gun) there was an attempt to eliminate outright the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, the part of the agency that produced the report.

 

When that didn't work, an amendment was pushed through that took away the budget of the agency to the tune of the exact amount the agency had spent on gun research the previous year. The amendment was passed attached to the order that: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

 

With that kind of politics, its not surprising things don't move forwards effectively. Public agencies learn that its not something they should speak about, whatever the facts, and the CDC at least was frightened so badly that they now ask researchers to report when they are publishing anything to do with firearms. The agency apparently gives that information to the NRA "As a courtesy"

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

good idea Matt I for one am going crazy that this thread is still open !!!someone lock it already

 

Oh an f f*7%$ gun control. alot of good it did in England. I remember the story of the two 10 year olds who lured a toddler away from mum and bashed his brains in with a brick.! guns are not the problem it is the people who dont want others to be able to defend themselves that are the problem.

people who want guns outlawed are really just people that have no hope or trust in humanity and are scared of the world

 

just ask some Armenians about gun control.

people who want guns outlawed are really just people that have no hope or trust in humanity and are scared of the world

 

Personally, I think people who want gun control are exactly the opposite but let's agree to disagree.

It seems a symptom of our current climate. Why talk it out? Why listen to the other side? Why encounter thoughts contrary to your own. Shut it down, turn it off!

 

And we have exactly what we have had before: simmering silence while nothing is done.

 

Lets hope the shock of this occurrence helps break the impasse.

I am all for pleasant disagreement ,k hell I have disagreed with most every one my whole life

but this thread has gone way beyond happy thoughts for innocent victims of a horrific crime.

and has nothing to do with flight sim ,Jean Paul you have the power to end this . I feel that if fine folks want to get together and discuss this give out your emails and continue this debate in private.

I come to avsim to escape and read about my hobby but this is thread is like a bloody train wreck on a sightseeing tour I cant stop looking at. it. Please let it die and rest in peace like the innocent victims we should be thinking of. sincerely in the utmost disagreeable respect L.T. Hendrix