Guys I think this is getting a bit split here between USA vs The World. The fact is America has guns available easier than most other place and that's probably never going to change, so there's no point arguing about it. What there is point in arguing about is how to ensure that guns only get into the right hands. There's no point in saying "Well in Ireland no one has guns, not even the Gardaí" - because that will just never happen in the states, ever, it's not in their culture to be w/o guns. What there is point in saying is making suggestions such as having to undertake a psych exam every period of years to keep a gun, or that you must demonstrate ability to correctly use a gun, or that there shuold be a program set up to help those with mental disabilities etc. Simply stating out right that we don't have guns and that works great, well it may well do for us, but clearly going on what has been said by our American friends here it doesn't there. So let's come up with some more creative ways of determining how tragedies like this can be avoid instead of simply stating why you love your country so much.

 

Regards,

Ró.

Ronan,

 

If that's aimed at me I've failed to make my point completely! My whole point is that it ISN'T (or at least SHOULDN'T be) USA v Rest of the World. My last point was to get folk to consider that having a huge arsenal doesn't make you safer.

 

Geoff

Re the original subject of this thread and what it has turned into; I have no problem whatsoever with the direction it has gone (bits of name calling aside).

 

Just because I've posted on this thread without adding some generic comment about sympathies to the families and the like does not mean that I'm appalled by what has happened, I just don't feel I need to air it here. It pretty much goes without saying that everyone feels for them, especially those that have children of their own.

 

Finally - yes this is perfect time to start debating the subject (whether you feel the debate is firearms control, mental health, media portrayal etc) in a reasoned manner (as I think we have been) rather than just sweeping it under the carpet and pretending there isn't a problem.

A sign of the times: Bulletproof backpacks for children. Sales are surging. http://www.bulletblo...ack-shield.html

 

But are bulletproof backpacks and armed teachers really the world we want? I am going to guess that the vast majority of people, who probably have no particular animus against gun ownership, are nonetheless (judging by poll numbers) beginning to feel that balance has been lost, and are going to push back against entering that universe.

There's even more irony in that since when were all foreigners on "The other side"?

How on earth did you conclude that the meaning of that statement was limited to only foreigners being on "The other side?" The reference to "sides" is to positions taken, and has nothing to do with geography, politics or nationalism.

 

Here in the U.S. there are nearly as many different "sides" as there are people...

 

Just as in the case of asking any three Talmudic scholars at random for an interpretation of any given bit of Torah you'll get at least five opinions...

 

...ask any three of us here in the U.S. for an opinon on any subject and you'll get at least five different answers!

How on earth did you conclude that the meaning of that statement was limited to only foreigners being on "The other side?" The reference to "sides" is to positions taken, and has nothing to do with geography, politics or nationalism.

....er well I've actually been looking at the "locations" on posters in the thread ...and they have mainly been overseas if they don't understand why anyone wants a gun. Check for yourself. I'm well aware that plenty of Americans equally share that view

 

 

Here in the U.S. there are nearly as many different "sides" as there are people...

B) indeed as i mentioned in an earlier post ^_^ It's the ones in stockades and bunkers that worry us!

 

Just as in the case of asking any three Talmudic scholars at random for an interpretation of any given bit of Torah you'll get at least five opinions...

 

...ask any three of us here in the U.S. for an opinon on any subject and you'll get at least five different answers!

Well now that just shows we're all the same! :lol: . I never worked with you did I? Sounds like my old management team. Every committee meeting they collectively agreed that their differing individual opinions and objectives had somehow been a united policy and we'd all agreed to it....... :lol:

 

Geoff

so many troubled young youths killing family members and others, what can we do?

http://youtu.be/Sed69D8M_78

My last point was to get folk to consider that having a huge arsenal doesn't make you safer.

It doesn't make me feel safer, quite the opposite in fact, I feel very safe as it is, but clearly to others, it does make them feel safe. And that's fine if they're responsible about it.

 

 

A sign of the times: Bulletproof backpacks for children. Sales are surging. http://www.bulletblo...ack-shield.html

I'm not sure that's a very healthy idea to be giving children bullet proof vests, I mean, whatever about telling them don't get into cars with strangers, but to give them a vest and lead them to believe that they could be shot dead at any point in time really does take both the innocence out of childhood and set a very negative atmosphere. I mean the risks aren't that high like, I couldn't imagine sending my daughter off to school in a bullet proof vest, but then again, there's statistically less change here as America, but even if the likely hood was the same, the statistics still don't make it likely for a kid to be shot in the USA, it's still pretty damn remote.

 

Just my €0.02

 

Regards,

Ró.

so many troubled young youths killing family members and others, what can we do?

 

video

 

Oh what a messed up world we live in...

 

Even in here Finland it often scares me to think how many people with serious mental problems this country has which together with relatively high amount of guns can lead into horrible events. Now of course after two big school shootings it's pretty impossible for such a person to legally obtain a pistol, but then there are really many people with hunting as their hobby so probably many of these people can still relatively easy obtain a gun if they really want to.

 

And now because of worsening demographics and economic downturn our government is cutting from healthcare, I wonder how all it will affect the treatment these people get.

:( I just saw on the news that I have the same birthday(July 10) as 1 of the little girls that died in Newtown, Madeleine F. Hsu: http://www.findagrav...&GRid=102205236

Here there is pretty much universal horror at the incident itself, unreserved sympathy for the families and that small community

 

Amen to that and I'm sure that much is true of everyone without exception who's posted here. All that we differ in his how we hope this can prevented from ever happening again.

 

But in addition to sympathy for the victims, I have to say I've got nothing but utter contempt for the individual who did this, no matter what his problems were. It's all very well pontificating about the benefits of gun controls, which I do believe in, but I also have to admit if I'd been there, with a gun, I'd have shot the ******* without hesitation or warning. Therein lies the problem; who's to be trusted with a gun under extreme provocation....

If you guys think this tragedy was worse enough already... wait till you hear this... Westboro Baptist Church to PICKET the kids funerals! WOW

 

http://news.msn.com/rumors/rumor-westboro-baptist-church-to-picket-sandy-hook-funerals

 

And the most popular petition right now on the White House Website

 

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legally-recognize-westboro-baptist-church-hate-group/DYf3pH2d

If you guys think this tragedy was worse enough already... wait till you hear this... Westboro Baptist Church to PICKET the kids funerals! WOW

 

http://news.msn.com/...y-hook-funerals

 

And the most popular petition right now on the White House Website

 

https://petitions.wh...-group/DYf3pH2d

 

Bikers descended on the town of Newtown yesterday and linked arms blocking the hate group protesters of Westboro Baptist Church from disrupting the funerals.

 

"More than 100 riders from New York and Massachusetts, organized by the anti-Westboro group Patriot Guard Riders, were also in Connecticut on Wednesday to show their support, Patch reported. The lined the streets arm in arm."

 

“All these guys see us and think we’re bad. We’re not. It’s solidarity, is what it is,” New York native Jim Hannigan told Newtown Patch. “I just felt I had to be here.”

Source and Photo by Newton Patch.

 

 

". . . if I'd been there, with a gun, I'd have shot the ******* without hesitation or warning. Therein lies the problem; who's to be trusted with a gun under extreme provocation...."

 

There's a problem with that scenario though. A teacher (armed, as many appear to want) hearing shots and people yelling and screaming, comes out of a classroom, sees you holding a gun and assumes in all the confusion that you're the bad guy, and shoots you. If he misses, do you shoot back at him to save your own life, or try to explain to him (above all the noise) what is going on?

 

Imagine a similarly confused situation in (say) a shopping mall, with many people in the vicinity with concealed-carry weapons, and you could have a mother of a gun battle between innocent, well-meaning people while the original bad guy makes an escape amid all the confusion.

 

Does this seem unlikely?

If you guys think this tragedy was worse enough already... wait till you hear this... Westboro Baptist Church to PICKET the kids funerals! WOW

Those folks make my blood boil with all their anti-gay propaganda and displays of sheer disrespect to everyone at some of the most sensitive times. :mad: Lock 'em up and throw away the key's I say. It's a wonder they haven't been the target of an assassination attempt yet...

 

Regards,

Ró.