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tf51d

Cirrus Parachute system Failure

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Since no one so far has mentioned this, here is what caught my eye:

 

 

he began to suspect problems with his Attitude Indicator.

When you are in the soup and cannot even trust your attitude indicator any longer, that sounds like just a bit more compelling reason for his decision to attempt the CAPS deployment.


Fr. Bill    

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My understanding the turns took place after the CAPS failure. It was after the CAPS failed to deploy that he decided to return to Addison. If you are looking at Flightaware, he flew farther North than that. It appears (to me) his CAPS attempt took someplace north of Celina. Roadrunners beware.

 

Your right, I had the wrong lake it was Ray Roberts lake, and there is a lot more farm land up that way, unless he was right over Celina at the time, so there would be less of a chance for collateral damage, if deployed up there.


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Maybe someone more familiar with a Cirrus can answer this for me... Does the Cirrus not have any backup gauges? Is there no redundancy in an almost $500,000 aircraft? How can an aircraft of that class and cost not have backup gauges? When I say flyable I mean he still had a working engine, working airspeed indicator, working altitude indicator, working controls and partial panel. Unflyable to me means loss of power or control. If you want to speak about heroes well here you go... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232 

 

 

 Sorry, You tube links aren't working...  Search for The Unflyable Plane

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-2JHvMkdNFA

 

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-2JHvMkdNFA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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Here are those quotes for you btw...  
 
Some real knuckledheaded stuff in those posts imo.  
 
Just because you can go partial panel, that does not mean that is the safest - or even safe - exit strategy - based on "the totality of the circumstances" (Bimmer recognize that?   :P   ).  
 
An airspeed indicator, altimeter and wet compass pretty thin stuff to be betting your life on in IMC.  No T/C even to tell if you are wings level or help with timed turns.
 
It is easy to criticize or monday morning quarterback.  The 10,000 hr ATP has no clue whether or not the Cirrus guy did what he (the ATP) would supposedly do.  In fact, he did fly the plane first.  In fact he did navigate away from a severe thunderstorm off his right wing.  Maybe the 10,000 hr ATP would have flown out the problem based on experience and confidence to handle systems failure.  But not all of us are born with 10,000 hours and an ATP.  Stuff takes years and years to get.
 
Btw, I'd like to see those "pilots" post their smack where the Cirrus pilot could read and respond to it.
 
Fly a couple hundred hours (sometimes not even that) and one is bound to have an AOPA "Never Again" moment.  A good pilot is always learning and re-evaluating a flight to see could I have done that better.  I am sure he is re-evaluating.
 
My thinking... my speculation... (fwiw) is the FAA & NTSB are going to come back with maybe an AD (repacking of the chutes - possibly in the form of a manf. SB) and possibly some systems re-eval or just plain awareness training wrt the P-static / Avidyne issues

 

I haven't seen one Cirrus Instructor remotely sharpen his / her tongue in the least bit wrt what the guy did or his decision process.  Some talk of re-evaluating procedures.  But critical?  No.  Not in this case.
 
Based on the Cirrus guy's attitude, decisions (on how I could conjure up in my mind what he was going thru from my past experiences) etc. for me... it would a privilege to fly with that guy.
 

Is there no redundancy in an almost $500,000 aircraft?
 
Sure... dual alternators... dual batteries... but if you don't trust the electricals... what are you going to do?
 
 

that sounds like just a bit more compelling reason for his decision to attempt the CAPS deployment.
 
I think (I "think" as I am not an authorized Cirrus Instructor) part of the philosophy with CAPS is, better to use it while under control and able to deploy within the proper parameters, than wait until it's too late.
 
From where I 'stand' now... I'd rather "pull" and be alive to be criticized later, than "not pull" and be dead.  This incident could have easily been a LOC (loss of control) in IMC resulting in one or more fatalities.

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@Great Ozzie

 

good post thanks for that


 

 

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Maybe someone more familiar with a Cirrus can answer this for me... Does the Cirrus not have any backup gauges? Is there no redundancy in an almost $500,000 aircraft? How can an aircraft of that class and cost not have backup gauges?

The SR22 this gentleman owns and was flying is serial number 6, which is one of the earliest and oldest of Cirrus' first generation.

avionics2020older20cirr.jpg

 

As you can see, there are no "backup instruments" with this classic six-pack arrangement.

 


Fr. Bill    

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The pilot's decision had me scratching my head as well. It's not like he lost his engine, give me the choice to lose instruments or my engine in a single piston and I'll chose to keep the engine everyday of the week. Anyway wow, some simple solutions here, one being talk to ATC, have them get you somewhere with VFR conditions. Cirrus aircraft do have some backup gauges, geez, use em, get below the clouds, have ATC vector you to an airport, and land, he has a stall horn, fly a full flaps approach into a long runway, cut the throttle, and glide yourself to a safe landing or if you happen to float down the length of the runway, go around and try again. I'm just astounded by this.


Jeff

Commercial | Instrument | Multi-Engine Land

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The pilot's decision had me scratching my head as well.

 

I read posts like these and I just want to tear my (what little of it remaining) hair out.

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Wow... All kinds of butt-hurt going on in this thread. Real 0/0 IMC is a hell of a thing. Never been in a position where I thought I wasn't coming home but if "pulling the handle" was thing I thought would get me home to the wife and kids in one piece then I pull it.

 

I am sure we are all "super-pilot" here and have no issues flying approaches to minimums dead cold our first time out but I'm more than inclined to cut a guy some slack for saving his skin in a tight spot. Until you fly a mile in "Tim's" trousers you just never know what really happened.

 

Glad a pilot lives to fly another day, sad that CAPS had a failure, surprised at the attitudes.


Daniel Fernandez

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I read posts like these and I just want to tear my (what little of it remaining) hair out.

That's nice, maybe offer something objective here and we can continue the discussion intelligently.

 

At the end of the day, I am happy that this story had a happy ending. I'm just confused as to why he was so quick to pull the "ejection handle," when he made it down safely without it.


Jeff

Commercial | Instrument | Multi-Engine Land

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Pretty poor piloting imho if a vacuum failure (what this looks like) causes you to pull a chute opposed to either A. climbing out of the soup or B. descending below the soup although in this case that meant 800 ft which is pretty close to cell phone tower altitude..

 

If you've experienced a vacuum/pitot/static system failure in flight while IMC, feel free to feel that way.  Instrument failures are extremely disorienting, and having it happen while hard IFR is every pilot's nightmare.  Even a newly IFR rated pilot's first IMC experience without their instructor can be daunting;  IMC is no joke.

 

I can tell you that I lost an HSI while shooting an ILS and that had my head spinning, even after fluidly changing my scan to the backup DG and continuing the approach.  Something I never want to happen again.


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I've experienced an ai failure in imc requiring a no gyro approach, and a complete static system failure in imc with an altimeter jumping +- 1000 ft.with a couple others problems thrown in at the same time.Thank god my primary instructor in that C-150 way back taught me to pretty much not use the artificial horizon and instead use the heading indicator as your bank indicator and the airspeed indicator as your pitch indicator.

 

Regardless how one would backseat quarterback things-a couple of things jump out at me.

 

It seems there are assumptions that one is 100% calm, dignified, and 100% in charge of their mental facilities when this happens. I know for myself, I spent the first 4-5 years of flying wondering/worrying how I would react in an emergency. Most I have known who have flown have  never had an emergency-maybe they are lucky or maybe I was lucky to have had a higher proportion to learn from . The best pilots I knew seemed to get real interested, sharpened facilities, and almost a thrill of the ultimate challenge in this situation. On the other side I've seen some pilots go into a complete disoriented panic over an open door or a lost comm. I always wondered would I be in control or would I crumble-and that is something you really can't predict until you have it happen to you. Luckily when I had mine I found I reacted somewhat in a good way-(except the first ai failure although maintaining aircraft control was assured I found I could not talk at the same time to atc-I kept trying to tell them what instrument had failed but somehow could not mouth the right word as I was too busy-they figured it out), but I would not short change anyone who because their brain is wired differently might react in a different manner. Despite all training there is just no way to know how it is going to go down till it happens.

 

Secondly-which has more destructive power? An aircraft falling in a rather stabilized direction/speed with a parachute deployed, or one in a graveyard spiral going red line out of control with a wing breaking off?

 

We would all like to think we would be Captain Sully in an emergency situation. I bet Sully wasn't even Sully-or what everyone likes to perceive.

 

Like the old aviation saying-any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. This was one they walked away from. In my book they did it right.


Geofa

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Cirrus aircraft do have some backup gauges, geez, use em...

What has me "scratching my head" is that in my post immediately prior to your's, I had just shown that his specific aircraft does not have backup gauges...


Fr. Bill    

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What has me "scratching my head" is that in my post immediately prior to your's, I had just shown that his specific aircraft does not have backup gauges...

I work at a cirrus authorized service center, I will ask our mechanics about that one as I find it very difficult to believe.


Jeff

Commercial | Instrument | Multi-Engine Land

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there have been multiple cases in the the last century of military pilots of damaged bombers and fighters staying with their planes till the last moment or until death to ensure the safety of innocents on the ground below.. these often have posthumous awards for bravery.. and deservedly.. i dont think i need a technical knowledge of this civilian (joyride?) plane to recognize who is and isnt a true hero... heros simply put the lives of others above their own regardless of possible outcome. i had to comment here as the use of the term hero got me 'annoyed'

 

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Russell Gough

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