Oh - and don't forget LDS and their 757 for FSX.

 

This comparison has come up before.

 

The difference is that Level-D has told that they are working on 757 (no release date). The PFPX team have released a statement that PFPX will be released in 2011.

 

 

destined to be like the horizon: we're always moving toward it but never reaching it...

 

What a great expression. Perfect analogy. 

 

 

 

I can't see why it causes so much stress.

 

Its not that it causes stress. Its just disappointing. Its very functional as it is.  And going to a page to get winds aloft, and other weather and Metar, then going to another page to figure out your block fuel, then to another one for the flight plan route, then TOGW and ZFW calculations, etc etc, is just silly and time consuming. An all in one flightplanner as it is now, just makes perfect sense. 

Its a shame they are striving for absolute perfection. Just as the above quote says, perfection wont happen just as chasing the horizon to catch it.  

I actually really want to use PFPX in the 777 tutorial flight - sorta looking like it won't happen though. I'm definitely not going to use something our customers can't actually buy on day one.

 

Mmmmm....this statement can be used as evidence in narrowing down a date for 777 release!  Where is Sherlock Holmes when you need him! 

 

Maybe they can do with PFPX like Captain Sim does, and just release an exterior model  :Just Kidding:

 

Oh...I'm hot today  :Party:

Gavin, on 23 May 2013 - 6:44 PM, said:

I can't really understand why people get so angry about this sort of thing.

For me it's more frustration than anger (at least that is how I like to fool myself).

 

I'm frustrated because, they can make great software. Take TOPCAT as an example, but... in my view, they are sometimes "shooting them selves in the foot". Do you remember which was the last aircraft that was added to TOPCAT?

 

It's for the Leonardo Maddog (MD-80).

 

Does TOPCAT have support for 777, Q400, Avros, Embraers, A318, A319, A321, A330, A340?

 

No. Why? (This is only my view, but) the internal data model seems to be so complex that buckets load of real world data is needed before a TOPCAT profile can be created. TOPCAT hasn't been able to keep up with great aircrafts that have been released over the years.

 

---

 

And how is this related to PFPX (other than it has the same core team)?

 

My fear is that PFPX ends up with similar faith. The product is released as "complete", few bugs a fixed and then that is all she wrote.

 

I would go even so far, that most of the future PFPX users will only use 20% of the PFPX feature set. Atlantic crossing, ETOPS, re-dispatch? Are these things that 80% of simmers use daily? Are they great to have? Absolutely but they might not have to part of the "base" package.

 

Why do I feel confident enough to say something like that? Looking at the Avsim demography, only a small percentage of users fly long haul. I personally have hard time getting more than 3h away from work and family (not the 8-12h required for long haul).

 

That 3h is the main reason behind my frustration. Currently it takes me anything from 1h to 3h to plan a flight. This time could be spent doing the thing I like the most, flying.

 

I have now been listening to release announcements for 2 years and waiting for the miracle cure, that would allow me to spend most of my free time flying.

 

Sorry for venting...

 

What a great expression. Perfect analogy. 

 

 

 

 

I can't see why it causes so much stress.

 

Its not that it causes stress. Its just disappointing. Its very functional as it is.  And going to a page to get winds aloft, and other weather and Metar, then going to another page to figure out your block fuel, then to another one for the flight plan route, then TOGW and ZFW calculations, etc etc, is just silly and time consuming. An all in one flightplanner as it is now, just makes perfect sense. 

Its a shame they are striving for absolute perfection. Just as the above quote says, perfection wont happen just as chasing the horizon to catch it.  

I see your point, that's fair enough.

 

For me it's more frustration than anger (at least that is have I like to fool myself).

 

I'm frustrated because, they can make great software. Take TOPCAT as an example, but... in my view, they are sometimes "shooting them selfs in the foot". Do you remember which was the last aircraft that was added to TOPCAT?

 

I see your point, that's fair enough.

Plus the fact that AOA use PFPX for most of their flight work and line work videos. The 2 line work videos are from February 2012 and what one can see in these videos is exactly what I want. A fantastic one for all tool, that obviously already worked quite flawlessly more than a year ago. So, when Christmas 2012 had been announced as release date, I really thought and hoped that it would happen. Now, half a year later, we still don't know when we will have this superb program on our machines...

Have to be careful with that though Michael - a sample size of 1 doesn't mean anything. I could have shown you a video 6 months ago that would have made the 777 look totally finished and ready for release too - doesn't mean it actually was.

Have to be careful with that though Michael - a sample size of 1 doesn't mean anything. I could have shown you a video 6 months ago that would have made the 777 look totally finished and ready for release too - doesn't mean it actually was.

 

You are right, Ryan. The developer alone decides when the point is reached for a piece of software to be considered finished and ready for release. I will definitely get this program the day it is released. And I wouldn't say that I am angry. Just disappointed, like a little boy on Christmas Eve when Santa haven't brought the long awaited toy... ;-)

Have to be careful with that though Michael - a sample size of 1 doesn't mean anything. I could have shown you a video 6 months ago that would have made the 777 look totally finished and ready for release too - doesn't mean it actually was.

Sure, Ryan, but you didn't. You didn't make your fans believe that the 777 was "virtually ready" 6 months ago because you KNEW it wasn't.

 

That's the difference to the Flightsimsoft people, who - judging from what they are doing - must be extremely smart people ! But still they made people believe for the past 2 years now that PFPX was more or less ready and release was imminent within a reasonable time frame for several times. It was christmas 2011, then it was summer/fall 2012, then it was christmas again, then shortly after, and now, 5 months after christmas, it is still "virtually ready" since the last "update" 2 months ago and obviously despite being "virtually ready" still adding functionality as per Pierre's latest posting. And I am confident that during summer we will get another "update" that they are aiming for another christmas release.

I'm a software tester for a living and I know how things sometimes can go wrong when everybody thought everything was finished. In a hobby environment like flight simulation most people don't care if something takes a couple months longer than expected, or maybe even a year. But telling people constantly that your product is more or less ready and then pushing it forward year after year without basically communicating with your potential customers is beyond me.

As posted from the flightsimsoft forum....

 

 

http://www.mastermind.co.nz/resources-free-stuff/articles/strive-imperfection/

Someone show them that web page!

I can't really understand why people get so angry about this sort of thing. I've lived my entire life so far without this product and not having it has made no significant difference to my life. I understand how much people are looking forward to it, so am I, but I can't see why it causes so much stress. Now if I'd pre-paid for it or if they'd done an Airsimmer style 'pay to beta' I'd be furious. We have so many different addons to play with already. Speaking for myself only, I haven't come anywhere near to exploring the full depth of my PMDG B744. Let alone my MD-11, NGX, etc, etc. I suppose I must just be a bit strange.

 

Ultimately, if waiting really causes so much stress, perhaps those affected should express their displeasure by boycotting the product when/if it's released. That will teach them. Oh - and don't forget LDS and their 757 for FSX.

I completely agree with you Gavin. I haven't paid a dime to FlightSimSoft (or PMDG or any other company) so they don't owe me anything, not even a release date. I have so many aircraft addons that I haven't even started learning it'll probably take me years to master them. To make things worse, I'll keep buying future addons so this learning thing will never end. On top of all these are family, work, and other hobbies.

 

So my thinking is if product X (PMDG 777, 747 v2, PFPX, etc) comes out soon, great!! If these companies take months or years to polish and debug their products, that's fine with me as well. Life is too short for us to be stressed and be angry about release dates. We have more important things to worry about.

We're all exposed to human traits and emotions, so when you get told something is nearly ready we all get hungry and anticipate it soon. Then when after weeks, months and even in this case years go buy we all get frustrated because not only do they tell us it's finished but they also show videos of the product in pretty much full use.

I jut wish they'd release as is because even in the state they've shown it, it's a million times better than what we have ready!

So my thinking is if product X (PMDG 777, 747 v2, PFPX, etc) comes out soon, great!! If these companies take months or years to polish and debug their products, that's fine with me as well. Life is too short for us to be stressed and be angry about release dates. We have more important things to worry about.

Not a matter of being stressed or angry. The point is when you have serious simulation aircraft like PMDG, or even similar aircraft, you like to do things properly. Most of us are after "as real as it gets" scenario. And this means proper flight planning. Right now you have to go through so many hoops to do it properly, you sometimes end up being a little lazy which is improper.  If this was another aircraft, or another scenery, well sure of course that can wait till its done. But we have here is a serious flight planning tool that could greatly enhance and go along way to everyones flying experience on here. As someone pointed out, most would not even use the extreme indepth features it offers as it is, and are just wanting proper routing, with fuel calculations, that incorporate weather/winds aloft. Seeing this very easily done in all the videos Ive seen to date and at the same time saying its virtually finished is what makes this whole thing ridiculous. 

If the developer gives a release date they get hammered for a date, if they give a date and miss, they get hammered for being late.

 

I think if I was a developer I would keep it a secret until finished and then spend a month or two building up anticipation with an exact release date and then release on that date....yet I am still sure some would not be satisfied.  

 

I just wish everyone would enjoy the stuff that has already been released.