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Bert Pieke

Hand flying the TBM

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I'm finding the TBM quite "lively" and not easy to control during takeoff and landings..

 

So I've toned it down a bit - which makes it more forgiving.

 

Not sure how the real aircraft behaves, it is an Italian airplane after all ^_^

 

If you find it a handful.. try this:

 

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar     = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar   = 1.0
induced_drag_scalar    = 1.5
elevator_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_effectiveness  = 0.8  //1.0
rudder_effectiveness   = 0.8  // 1.0
pitch_stability        = 1.0
roll_stability         = 1.1 // 1.0

 

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Not sure how the real aircraft behaves, it is an Italian airplane after all ^_^

 

It's French not Italian.

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Kind of makes sense that she is responsive... it has both spoiler and alieron control.

 

The italian is the Avanti P180 II

 

An insanely fast and loud plane that you land at 120 kts because the wings are so tiny.

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I'm not a huge fan of removing any sort of realism the fde may contain. Don't really see the point.

 

Yes she is a little lively as you say however the more you practice, the easier it becomes to tame the little beast.

 

Don't cop out and make it easier to fly. Get amongst it and challenge yourself.

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I'm not a huge fan of removing any sort of realism the fde may contain. Don't really see the point.

 

Yes she is a little lively as you say however the more you practice, the easier it becomes to tame the little beast.

 

Don't cop out and make it easier to fly. Get amongst it and challenge yourself.

 

Agree with this big time. Harder planes to fly make easy planes to fly childs play.

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Biggest problem i have with this bird is lateral control on landing. Even with a boot-full of rudder I have trouble putting her down on the center line. I have the same problem with the Jet-Prop, and to a lesser extent, the C90.

 

Not sure where the problem in my technique is with these birds, I'm able to land my other frequent fliers with no problem (T210, PMDG NGX).

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I've been saying since day 1 of release that the plane tends to be somewhat unstable on approach and takeoff. While some positive rudder trim seems to help on takeoff, it's not quite as simple in the approach phase. It has some wild yawing tendencies, making slips quite challenging. I had posted back then that I toned down the rudder effectiveness to .8 (originally 1.0) which helped alot....but since the patch I have not touched it, only because I'd really like to know from a real TBM pilot which is more true to life for this plane (unstable yawing issues, or not?).

 

While all the flight reports/articles I've read say that it's a fantastic hand flyer...they also talk about how the rudder trim seems to be a big factor...so I'm left wondering what to do about making the edits again.

 

Would be nice if we could have a real 850 pilot chime in on this point.

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Biggest problem i have with this bird is lateral control on landing. Even with a boot-full of rudder I have trouble putting her down on the center line. I have the same problem with the Jet-Prop, and to a lesser extent, the C90.

 

Not sure where the problem in my technique is with these birds, I'm able to land my other frequent fliers with no problem (T210, PMDG NGX).

 

I cant seem to keep this thing down the centerline after applying some reverse...... It acts like a twin not synched......yaws like a ######....

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The aircraft is not unstable- I feel it's as good a representation as we can get of a real aircrafts flying qualities.

99% of FS birds fly like they're on rails.

The first time an FS enthusiast flys a real aircraft most are very surprised as to the "squirminess" (they might describe as instablity) of an aircraft moving through the air with turbulence etc. They actually have to "fly" the aircraft.

The Carenado TBM is a thrill to hand fly and the "feel" they've given the FDE is superb. As good as I've ever seen.

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Interesting point, what is your real world flying background?

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Biggest problem i have with this bird is lateral control on landing. Even with a boot-full of rudder I have trouble putting her down on the center line. I have the same problem with the Jet-Prop, and to a lesser extent, the C90.

 

Not sure where the problem in my technique is with these birds, I'm able to land my other frequent fliers with no problem (T210, PMDG NGX).

 

I find the same thing.  The TBM, especially in the roll axis, tends to rock back and forth and it is easy to overcorrect.  The best way to reduce that is to reduce the roll MOI and the yaw MOI, but it again raises the question of whether we're reducing the realism.  If the real TBM handles as modeled, then it's a wonderful challenge to hone our skills and experience different types of aircraft.

 

John

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Interesting point, what is your real world flying background?

I've been flying privately since 1978-currently Sport Pilot- Remos GX

Time in:

C402

C414

C172

C152

Beech C-90

Piper Warrier

C182

Remos G3

RemosGX

Myers 145

Globe Swift

Vans RV-10

Those are the ones I can remember..

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I've been flying privately since 1978-currently Sport Pilot- Remos GX

Time in:

C402

C414

C172

C152

Beech C-90

Piper Warrier

C182

Remos G3

RemosGX

Myers 145

Globe Swift

Vans RV-10

Those are the ones I can remember..

A sport pilot, ahah! Then you may be the perfect person for me to ask about the Skycatcher!

 

Have you flown in the 162? (either real of flight1's)...would be interested as to your thoughts on that one as it does not exhibit the same "squirminess"..

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I've been flying privately since 1978-currently Sport Pilot- Remos GX

Time in:

C402

C414

C172

C152

Beech C-90

Piper Warrier

C182

Remos G3

RemosGX

Myers 145

Globe Swift

Vans RV-10

Those are the ones I can remember..

 

I took my Sport Pilot Lessons in the Fantasy Air Allegro, Zenith 601, and the XAir H.  I stopped--the expense of finding a hangar is what stopped me, they just can't be found in Phoenix without a steep cost.  And you don't want to tie down a LSA given the fierce, 70 mph wind storms that we can have here in Phoenix.  But one day I will return to flying, probably GA.  My health and vision have improved and I have 20-20 corrected in my good eye.  My heart is in great shape for flying--due to a cycling regimen I keep up, my resting pulse is between 65 and 70--pretty good when you're in your 50's.

 

Once I get my GA ticket I will look for a fair condition 172 (better yet, a 177, my favorite Cessna) so I can take my wife and daughter and friends up with me (after I build up some time and become a better all around pilot).  My CFI wanted to solo me--he said I had excellent flying skills (aside from mauling the control stick), but the Allegro got booked solid and then summer hit.  I started shopping around for another LSA flight school, and couldn't find one.  I shopped for an LSA aircraft I could buy and train in, but since I weigh over 200# I could not find one with a useful load that would loft a CFI and myself, not on my budget, which was about 35K at the time.  That's why I am leaning toward a regular GA ticket now.  In a few weeks I will likely go up on a trial flight and see how things go from there.

 

John

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I have not flown the Skycatcher in real life or FS. I am very familiar with it though.

My company was in the running to ship those things from China stateside.

It had some teething problems (not enough vert stab area) but it appears Cessna has it sorted.

Of all the LSA's I think the Remos GX and the new Cirius 3000 are the finest of the bunch.



I took my Sport Pilot Lessons in the Fantasy Air Allegro, Zenith 601, and the XAir H.  I stopped--the expense of finding a hangar is what stopped me, they just can't be found in Phoenix without a steep cost.  And you don't want to tie down a LSA given the fierce, 70 mph wind storms that we can have here in Phoenix.  But one day I will return to flying, probably GA.  My health and vision have improved and I have 20-20 corrected in my good eye.  My heart is in great shape for flying--due to a cycling regimen I keep up, my resting pulse is between 65 and 70--pretty good when you're in your 50's.

 

Once I get my GA ticket I will look for a fair condition 172 (better yet, a 177, my favorite Cessna) so I can take my wife and daughter and friends up with me (after I build up some time and become a better all around pilot).  My CFI wanted to solo me--he said I had excellent flying skills (aside from mauling the control stick), but the Allegro got booked solid and then summer hit.  I started shopping around for another LSA flight school, and couldn't find one.  I shopped for an LSA aircraft I could buy and train in, but since I weigh over 200# I could not find one with a useful load that would loft a CFI and myself, not on my budget, which was about 35K at the time.  That's why I am leaning toward a regular GA ticket now.  In a few weeks I will likely go up on a trial flight and see how things go from there.

 

John

 

 

Hey Cactus!

Yeah- the LSA thing being cheap never really panned out did it..

$100,000 + for a new bird.. Better to buy a used Cessna or Piper but that takes one out of the Sport Pilot rating.

Piper Cubs qualify though.

I envy you though living in the valley of the sun- we are considering relocating there.

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Of all the LSA's I think the Remos GX and the new Cirius 3000 are the finest of the bunch.

 

Skully, is there an available FSX model you would recommend for either of those?

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Skully, is there an available FSX model you would recommend for either of those?

 

 

I have not seen a model available for either- I think I spotted a Tecnam Sierra somewhere but I've not downloaded.

I wish someone would produce a good model of the Remos. That's a classy little bird with excellent performance and useful load for an LSA.

The best way I've found to replicate real world flying in these FS birds is to dial in some mild turbulence at all altitudes so your bouncing around up there.

It makes one have to constantly "fly" the aircraft to hold heading and altitude when hand flying.

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I have not seen a model available for either- I think I spotted a Tecnam Sierra somewhere but I've not downloaded.

I wish someone would produce a good model of the Remos. That's a classy little bird with excellent performance and useful load for an LSA.

The best way I've found to replicate real world flying in these FS birds is to dial in some mild turbulence at all altitudes so your bouncing around up there.

It makes one have to constantly "fly" the aircraft to hold heading and altitude when hand flying.

 

I have an Allegro for FS9--a fellow simmer did the visual model, I modified it and added a VC, and I did the flight dynamics for it.  It handles much like the real one. 

 

I always dial in some chop in the sim--it makes hand flying fun and much more real.  I also dial in shifting wind speeds which adds even more to the experience.  It doesn't take much--just about 5-10 knots is perfect.  In Arizona, there wasn't a day I went flying without some chop.  I was taught to let the Allegro fly its way through it and taught to stay at or below maneuvering speed, even though the Allegro can fly some 20 kts faster.  My favorite training flight was over the Renaissance fair in Apache Junction.  We were flying about 5000 ft, and below us was a blimp.  It was just the perfect flight, well suited to train me to keep an eye on all types of traffic.  You never know what to expect. 

 

John

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Biggest problem i have with this bird is lateral control on landing. Even with a boot-full of rudder I have trouble putting her down on the center line. I have the same problem with the Jet-Prop, and to a lesser extent, the C90.

 

Not sure where the problem in my technique is with these birds, I'm able to land my other frequent fliers with no problem (T210, PMDG NGX).

 

I have the same problem..  The rudder changes the direction that the nose points to, but the airplane continues

to fly the exact same heading.. Other airplanes in FSX behave differently.

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I have the same problem..  The rudder changes the direction that the nose points to, but the airplane continues

to fly the exact same heading.. Other airplanes in FSX behave differently.

 

...and I've been told off-line that the "other airplanes" may actually be the unrealistic ones, so I better

pay some attention to my piloting habits when on short final.  :blush:

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well Skully seems to also think it's one of the most realistic "feeling" fde's in fs by the sound of his post above :-)

 

However, I could have sworn I can remember an actual TBM850 pilot who was in here a week or two ago who wasn't quite as impressed.

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I have the same problem.. The rudder changes the direction that the nose points to, but the airplane continues

to fly the exact same heading.. Other airplanes in FSX behave differently.

 

What should happen is that, when you apply the rudder it will yaw but then the wings should begin to roll and the airplane will turn. 

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What should happen is that, when you apply the rudder it will yaw but then the wings should begin to roll and the airplane will turn. 

 

That is my understanding as well.  On this TBM, you can kick in full rudder in flight, the nose will move sideways, and the airplane will stay perfectly level.

 

If you then take pressure off the rudder, the nose will return to the exact position where it started.

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an actual TBM850 pilot who was in here a week or two ago who wasn't quite as impressed.

 

Actually, he raved about the flying/FDE aspect... it was everything else that was unimpressive.

 

"*The aircraft flies and feels very similarly to the actual aircraft when hand flying.  Steep turns, stalls, and maneuvering feel accurate and the appropriate power settings give the expected flight profiles. " - Seth.

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