Received a PM from someone intimately familiar with Carenado FDE. He reminded me that the flightpath is controlled by the lift vector, rudder simply controls yaw.

 

I took up the C182Q, C337, Turbine Duke, PA46 and J41 and tried this out.  All of them except the PA46 yawed and then rolled as I would expect.  The PA46 was barely responsive to rudder input at all and wouldn't roll.  The J41 was slow in response to rudder but did roll.

High performance aircraft + low time in type pilots have a history of leaving smoking holes in the ground...

High performance aircraft + low time in type pilots have a history of leaving smoking holes in the ground...

 

wow, that was VERY helpful  :mad:

 

As a real pilot, why not add a little insight into the discussion?

I took up the C182Q, C337, Turbine Duke, PA46 and J41 and tried this out. All of them except the PA46 yawed and then rolled as I would expect. The PA46 was barely responsive to rudder input at all and wouldn't roll. The J41 was slow in response to rudder but did roll.

Interesting. I'm reminded of the US Air 734 that rolled into a spin after a rudder hard-over. So I think you're right too, rudder should induce some roll. We need an aerodynamicist to explain things.

Yes, enough application of rudder typically produces a roll in a real aircraft...but I'm sure exactly how much input and roll you might get depends upon the plane. Perhaps not ALL planes will produce the roll effect?...I suppose that's a possibility and depends upon lots of things such as size/shape of rudder/wings/stabilizers/wind conditions/AoA, etc.

 

So any real pilots out here know about any real planes that will NOT roll with full rudder deflection?

If I were to guess, I would say that when you deflect the airplane tail to the left by applying right rudder it would cause the left wing to have more lift (being more exposed to the wind than the right wing), which would induce a roll to the right.

Yes, enough application of rudder typically produces a roll in a real aircraft...but I'm sure exactly how much input and roll you might get depends upon the plane. Perhaps not ALL planes will produce the roll effect?...I suppose that's a possibility and depends upon lots of things such as size/shape of rudder/wings/stabilizers/wind conditions/AoA, etc.

 

So any real pilots out here know about any real planes that will NOT roll with full rudder deflection?

 

Roll with rudder is dependent on the dihedral of the aircraft.  I have an RC Sailplane, the Radian Glider, which is turned with rudder alone.  It has a large amount of dihedral, which causes a roll when the rudder is applied.  The dihedral is large enough to do a barrel roll, which I've done a couple of times.  Less Dihedral=less roll when the rudder is applied.  The TBM 850 does have some dihedral, so there should be some roll on application of the rudder.  How much, I don't know since I haven't flown one in real life.  There's a couple of tables in the .air file which manage the effect of yaw on roll, and roll on yaw.

 

John

wow, that was VERY helpful  :mad:

 

As a real pilot, why not add a little insight into the discussion?

 

It was very insightful IF you think about it but you've had a snarky attitude throughout every discussion so far on the TBM.

If you want to listen and think, fine, if not that's fine too just don't drag down the conversation because you think you're right and everyone else is wrong..

When the leaves get big in the windshield- it's too late to repent.

Yes I'm sure everyone agrees your comment was VERY insightful, only not in a way that was helpful to anyone in finding an answer.

 

Perhaps if YOU would listen & think then maybe you could learn something from John's response here, which offered some knowledge into our questions about the flight dynamics.

 

Say whatever you feel like saying, that's fine by me...but if you make a "snarky" comment then you should expect a "snarky" response.

Easy Kids......... Same Team.....

:lol: What's going on over here? Someone woke up on the wrong foot?

 

 

When the leaves get big in the windshield- it's too late to repent.

 

 

Well... at least I dont have to worry about getting another keyboard.. Thanks to this... that is going to happen if I want it or not!

 

And I just opened that coke...

Well... at least I dont have to worry about getting another keyboard.. Thanks to this... that is going to happen if I want it or not!

 

And I just opened that coke...

 

lol Hawks!

 

I can confirm that the TBM rolls with rudder input. If yours does not please check your realism settings in the sim.

 

I can confirm that the TBM rolls with rudder input. If yours does not please check your realism settings in the sim.

 

You can change a single value in the air file (with Aired) if you want to change this behavior. 

Yes I'm sure everyone agrees your comment was VERY insightful, only not in a way that was helpful to anyone in finding an answer.

 

Perhaps if YOU would listen & think then maybe you could learn something from John's response here, which offered some knowledge into our questions about the flight dynamics.

 

Say whatever you feel like saying, that's fine by me...but if you make a "snarky" comment then you should expect a "snarky" response.

 

I haven't taken offense at any of the comments here.  We're all trying to find out what's right for this aircraft.  That's why I haven't made any changes to my .air file.  I haven't flown the TBM in several days so I haven't tried to see whether yaw will induce roll or not.  I assume those who haven't seen that behavior aren't flying with auto-coordination turned on, but then again it's never wise to assume.  I'll take the '850 up on a short hop and see what happens.  I'm curious now.  From observations of it, I should see at least some roll when rudder is applied.

 

John

 

Edit:  With auto-coordination off, I can confirm that when rudder is applied, a gentle roll will start in the direction in which rudder is applied.  It's not strong like some aircraft, but it is certainly there.