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Airbus new delivery flight route to USA ?

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Hi everyone

 

Can anyone tell me what would be the flight route when a brand new A320 is delivered from France to one of the airlines in the USA please, do they go via Iceland/Greenland?? just curious.

 

Thanks

Paul

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I believe they do.    Unless the A32X has been upspec'd for ETOPS (unlikely in the US unless it'a maybe going to do US > Hawaii, or US > Bermuda flights) it wouldn't be ETOPS certified, so the most likely routing would be along the lines of France > Iceland > Greenland > North America.    

 

This is the route that the ATRs on ferry take.  Having a much longer range, it's possible that the A32X may not require the Greenland stop, and could perhaps make it from Iceland to NA.

 

Just conjecture really, so perhaps somone can offer a more substantive answer.

 

:smile:

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Would ETOPS apply?

 

The A319s could do it with a stop on the east coast of North America. So basically unless they're going to the wet coast, they could go direct.

 

Same with the A320s remember they are empty after all, range is increased considerably.

 

The A321s might struggle on a windy day but it wouldn't be too bad.

 

I don't think a stop in Iceland or Greenland is really warranted most of the time.

 

Lee

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I read somewhere that Ryanair's NGs go direct from Renton to Dublin. Not sure if that's true but with a full tank of gas and no pax it seems plausible.

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I read somewhere that Ryanair's NGs go direct from Renton to Dublin. Not sure if that's true but with a full tank of gas and no pax it seems plausible.

 

Yeah the NG's do that, same for the A32X series.

From Toulouse anyway lol

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ETOPS is a legal requirement, it's not defined by range, fuel or weight.

 

If the aircraft is not ETOPs certified, it cannot be further than 60 minutes from a diversion airfield;  which means a direct atlantic crossing is not possible.

 

Even for the London Heathrow <> Halifax, NS flights, Air Canada use two adapted ETOPs certified A319s.

 

Hence why non-ETOPs aircraft fly the Greenland / Iceland routes;  it's not due to range etc, it's to comply with the requirement to be no more than 60 mins from a diversion airfield at any time.

 

Then again............ I'm not sure if ETOPs applies to non-commercial, non passenger-carrying flights, so perhaps ferry flights are exempt from ETOPs.

 

Until someone can cite facts around these flights, I guess we're all offering logical guestimates. :smile:

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British Airways fly an A318 from London City to JFK via a refuel in Shannon, but on the return leg it flies directly into London.

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Best person to answer this, I reckon, would be our very own Staffer, Capt Ró, so if you are reading this, Ró, as certified A32X Capt, maybe you can shed some light on this. What a couple of really interesting topics today. One on APU usage at VHHH, and this one.

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  • Air Canada operates the 319 from St John's NFLD to London Heathrow.

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f the aircraft is not ETOPs certified, it cannot be further than 60 minutes from a diversion airfield; which means a direct atlantic crossing is not possible.

I don't believe that ETOPS applies to non-passenger flights such as a delivery flight.

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I don't believe that ETOPS applies to non-passenger flights such as a delivery flight.

 

 

 

Then again............ I'm not sure if ETOPs applies to non-commercial, non passenger-carrying flights, so perhaps ferry flights are exempt from ETOPs.

 

Very possibly ....... it would seem logical, as ETOPS is really nothing other than a safety measure applied to mass passenger transport.    So I wouldn't be surprised at all if as you say, it doesn't apply to ferry flights.

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I think ETOPS only applies to commercial operations, airlines etc ( at least in North America) because private bizjets are not subject to ETOPS requirements as they fall under a different thing. Same with ferrying etc.

 

And I'm sure if there was an issue Airbus could get a exemption for that particular flight.

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Non-revenue flights are not subject to ETOPS restrictions, if I understand correctly.

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Delivery flights are not subject to ETOPS rules. Also, ETOPS doesn't just apply to an aircraft, but to an Airline, and in particular, an airframe. So just because there's one A320 that's ETOPS rated, doesn't mean it applies to all A320s. many operators of the A320 will never need to have an ETOPS certified airframe, or may not be in a position to finance an ETOPS certification program.

 

As for the route, I know many stop in SNN for fueling before then heading on empty to the US.

 

I read somewhere that Ryanair's NGs go direct from Renton to Dublin. Not sure if that's true but with a full tank of gas and no pax it seems plausible.

Yup, they sure do.

 

 

Best person to answer this, I reckon, would be our very own Staffer, Capt Ró, so if you are reading this, Ró, as certified A32X Capt, maybe you can shed some light on this. What a couple of really interesting topics today. One on APU usage at VHHH, and this one.

If you point me to the other topic I'll gladly answer there.

 

Regards,

Ró.

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Delivery flights are not subject to ETOPS rules. Also, ETOPS doesn't just apply to an aircraft, but to an Airline, and in particular, an airframe. So just because there's one A320 that's ETOPS rated, doesn't mean it applies to all A320s. many operators of the A320 will never need to have an ETOPS certified airframe, or may not be in a position to finance an ETOPS certification program.

 

As for the route, I know many stop in SNN for fueling before then heading on empty to the US.

 

Yup, they sure do.

 

 

If you point me to the other topic I'll gladly answer there.

 

Regards,

Ró.

Thanks, Ro. The other topic was taken care of by other R/W 'jocks' and rampies.

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Thank you guys for all your comments, I think I will fly the Shannon / JFK route!

 

Cheers

Paul

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in addition to what ro has said from my experience of having a JAA dispatchers license for 8 years, and over 14 years airline experience. (imagine how frustrating it is to have a 13 year vatsim controller tell you your flightplan is wrong) the transatlantic routes depends on quite a few things, first of all what equipment the a/c has on board.

 

Ie.. is the aircraft mnps,hf//vfr and RVSM equippped ?? if it isnt cant operate in the nat airspace and it will have to use the blue spruce routes over iceland and greenland. 

 

for example the airline I work for has 319's and 320s, the 320s are MNPS equipped the a319s are not, this is purely for cost saving.  reason is 320s normally use the T9 airway off the west coast of france to get down to the Canaries. T9 is in MNPS airspace, We only use the 320s on the canaries routes so no point in spending money on equipping them all. 

 

Last week with the atc strikes in France, this causes huge problems as we couldnt reroute using T9 on other routes on the a319s, so we ended up canx more than 50 flights. 

 

Secondly also depends on the airlines aoc and what the airline is allowed and not allowed to do.  For example if an aircraft is being delivered or being returned to the leaser on a GECAS or Parc Avaition AOC (non pax carrying) they will have greater flexibilty than a pax carrying aoc.

 

Also alot a private jets using a319 // a320s, dont have an AOC and are classed at GA, they are also dont have to abide by etops rules.  Once again all depends on what the operator is allowed to do and not to do.

 

Finally, also depends on airworthiness certificates, most delivery and return leasing  flights normally have temporary airwothiness certs this also effects routings and if the a/c can enter mnps.

 

Finally the etps, diversion airfields, and refuelling stops all depends routings which depends on winds and the above issues.

 

as always with aviation, its not a simple as what spotters think.

 

cheers, happy landings.

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