PMDG are second-to-none in terms of the quality of their products and pre-release testing. Having said that, though, I am going to adopt a short-term "wait-and-see" approach, just in case there are any major hiccups, before I hand over my hard-earned...

Yeah, I was referring to doing stalls and steep turns. 

 

You need to disable the FBW protection to do all that 

I'll be flying it the first day it releases...

 

Maybe even hours before? Soz can't tell ya why or how - mystery  :ph34r:

You don't practice stalls in airliners, ever. The 777 is not a light prop.

 

No you don't practice stalls in the actual aircraft. But you DO practice stalls and other such confidence maneuvers in the simulator.  It would be irresponsible not to know procedures by practicing them rather than reciting them in your head 1000 times.  You can take my word as an ATPL on that.

 

Brian Thibodeaux

cancel, the above post deals with it

You don't practice stalls in airliners, ever. The 777 is not a light prop.

Generally not in the real plane, but we do in the sim!

 

Having said that, I've jump seated on a BAe146 post heavy maintenance flight where it was done.

You don't practice stalls in airliners, ever. The 777 is not a light prop.

 

 

Yes you do.  Test pilots do it all the time.  Sometimes they invite Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden to fly with you.  He's used to flying his B757 but anyhow, check it out.  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKBABNL-DDM

Nothing to stop you, but there isn't much point; certainly if you're looking for realism or indeed a learning experience.

 

The stall regime for a swept wing airliner is unlikely to be accurately modelled. This is because if you stall an airliner, you're likely to get killed. Kyle covered one reason, which is loss of lateral control due to the wing tips stalling first. Another result of this is that it causes the centre of pressure to move forward, causing a pitch up moment, further aggravating the stall.

 

A stall in an airliner isn't like that of a small Cessna. It will result in the loss of many thousands of feet. As they are so dangerous, the aircraft are built with protection and training involves avoiding them, not recovering.

Im stunned at this post. Speechless really , I thought you 2 new better. Of course there will be recovery  training, you cant have one without the other because it wouldnt be a stall. They are not going to be shown a quick vid and then sent off with a few hundred pax

@Ryan, Brian.. You guys have got me interested, did your TRI explain to you that the handling and performance of the sim would not be accurate? Most I have seen is stick shaker speeds and demonstrations of a correct recovery. Accurate behaviour of the aircraft in a 'actual stall' is not realistic, approach to stall and recovery is trained, I can only speak for the L1011/ A3xx/ 767 & 777 simulator training.

 

Edit - what on earth does a video of good ol Bruce flying at alpha max have to do with anything?

Can't imagine going flying right away, I'd like to become somewhat familiar with what I need to do first.   Gonna read the tutorial and intro docs on my Kindle Fire first, and then attempt a cold and dark startup and quick circuit flight at Paine Field.   I hope the intro doc will explain differences between the T7 and the NGX, but I have tons of experience on all the other Boeings so I should be able to fake my way through initially.   My take from seeing the excellent video by Scandinavian13 is that it is a cross between a 747 and MD-11/Airbus, with the "lights out" philosophy that makes it easier on pilot workload, and lots more automation compared to the 747.  

Yes you do.  Test pilots do it all the time.  Sometimes they invite Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden to fly with you.  He's used to flying his B757 but anyhow, check it out.  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKBABNL-DDM

 

Except that the Airbus prevented him from stalling in the first place.

This is an awful example of what can happen when stalling during a steep turn and a good reason to never stall big iron in real life although this wasn't planned. I think we need to remember we are all in a simulator and hence simulator rules apply at all times and discussion around aerodynamics should be based on Simulation

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-S_NM--evM

This is an awful example of what can happen when stalling during a steep turn and a good reason to never stall big iron in real life although this wasn't planned. I think we need to remember we are all in a simulator and hence simulator rules apply at all times and discussion around aerodynamics should be based on Simulation

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-S_NM--evM

You should have a read of the accident report, the guy flying it was an accident waiting to happen. I feel sorry for those that had to fly with him. One crew member even tried to eject.

I probably wont do a line flight straight off the bat.

 

Planning to a sim scenario as laid out in a FLTH (Flying Line Training Handbook) I have access to. While I see myself as a fairly advanced pilot, I still like to learn the systems inside and out before I do a full line flight so I can incorporate everything I have learned in the CBT, reading of the manuals and from a scenario in the FLTH.

 

 

Except that the Airbus prevented him from stalling in the first place.

 

No.  Not except.  They went in to that maneuver with the intention to stall the aircraft,  Boeing pilots would do the same thing.  One difference being that Airbus pilots have a completely different way of bringing the plane out of a stall than Boeing pilots.  

No you don't practice stalls in the actual aircraft. But you DO practice stalls and other such confidence maneuvers in the simulator.  It would be irresponsible not to know procedures by practicing them rather than reciting them in your head 1000 times.  You can take my word as an ATPL on that.

 

Brian Thibodeaux

 

 

Yes you do.  Test pilots do it all the time.  Sometimes they invite Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden to fly with you.  He's used to flying his B757 but anyhow, check it out.  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKBABNL-DDM

 

 

Im stunned at this post. Speechless really , I thought you 2 new better. Of course there will be recovery  training, you cant have one without the other because it wouldnt be a stall. They are not going to be shown a quick vid and then sent off with a few hundred pax

 

Let's be clear here as there are two separate issues: an actual stall, and low speed / stall protection. Also, this is primarily centred around swept wing jet liners like the 777 is not all encompassing of any potential exceptions that may or may not exist.

 

Low speed protections for airliners: some are simple like stick shakers that require recovery action from the pilot, to stick pushers, ECIAS/ECAM warnings, as well as more sophisticated systems such as A-Floor on airbus and the inability to trim nose up at lower speeds in the 777. Pilots will of course be trained in what their aircraft can and can't do, and and how to execute any required recovery actions. These generally indicate that the potential for a stall is there if corrective action by the pilot (or plane) isn't taken. If such corrective actions are taken, a stall HAS NOT HAPPENED, it's been avoided. Don't get this confused with an actual stall which (again in general) involves high AoA, high drag, low lift, high rate of descent, often accompanied by buffeting.

No.  Not except.  They went in to that maneuver with the intention to stall the aircraft,  Boeing pilots would do the same thing.  One difference being that Airbus pilots have a completely different way of bringing the plane out of a stall than Boeing pilots.  

 

See my post above and understand the difference between an actual stall and low speed / stall protection. They did NOT stall the aircraft, it's blatantly obvious because he attained a positive rate of climb when he pulled back, and he's at 170kts with no sign of the low speed indications on the speed tape as you can see at 5:55 shortly after.