Semantics!

If 2D panels are obsolete, why does the FAA refuse to accept virtual panels in "approved training devices"? 

The reason is that REAL aircraft instrument panels do NOT zoom in & out, up & down, nor twist around in sync with the earth's horizon.

The FAA  requires that any instruments, gauges, switches & buttons shown on such a device, must remain in a fixed or unchanging location. The idea being that the trainee pilot needs to learn these exact locations by rote- without having to think about it.

In a virtual system, the instrument panel is synched to the horizon. In a real aircraft, the panel is "synched" to the airplane AND to the pilot's eyes & brain - regardless of aircraft attitude.

Just imagine trying to fly inverted with a virtual aerobatic plane!

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That said, market place economics undoubtedly have led to virtual technology leaving 2D as an "also ran".

But I wonder what would happen if a developer were to simply chop his virtual panel code into three, fixed 2D segments- to be displayed synched, side by side on multiple monitors. Perhaps there is a whole new market out there for a truly wide screen simulation that more accurately represents what a pilot REALLY sees!!!!

(Three very cheap 19" monitors, all running at modest resolution for high system performance, will produce a panel image of about 50" width- not too far from the real world size. And yes, simple bezel adjustment will make 3 separate images appear as one- just like the windows in your car.)

 

january

 

Fokker 100 on Juneau approach  (AMD XP 2200 @ 1.8 GHz)

2D panels are stupid and un-realistic, nobody cares about 2D anymore.

 

We're in FSX, not FS95.

2D panels are stupid and un-realistic, nobody cares about 2D anymore.

 

We're in FSX, not FS95.

Interesting first post....  :mellow:  Ignore listed

Until I got my new i4770K I was a staunch supporter of 2D panels. With the gorgeous T7 two things occurred for me:

 

VC graphics have completely caught up with 2D graphics (T7 is gorgeous)

I can run the VC without FPS issues

 

As I have the Opus weather add-on I configured FIXED VC views that behave pretty much exactly like 2D panels. No more nausea.

 

Having said that I think that it would not cost developers that much more to develop basic 2D panels. Just one 2D panel for takeoff and approach would be sufficient. Most people have hardware good enough for cruise flight in a VC.

 

But I fully understand the pain of those of you that cannot get the latest hardware.

 

Thanks

The reason I prefer the 2D is that I can have the runway zoomed at 100% and I see the full panel.  In order to get this, I need to reduce to 50% zoom.  Look at the 2 777 videos (they are at 50% zoom).

 

Some argue you really can't see the runway and the instrument panel at the same time, so you better be at 100% zoom and pick either the panel or the runway. 

 

Even with TrackIR, you can't mimic the milli-second transition of your eyes from the instrument panel to the outside view. 

 

So for me, I love the 2D.  I have learned to live with the 3D, but I's pay $50 to anyone who develops the 2D for the 777.  I hope the 787 by the "other guys" will have a 2D.

 

One more note - I still can't believe someone would start this topic that has been beaten to death and more absurd is that I continue to add my 2 cents to it.

 

Time to fly my crappy 3D 777 now.

 

Paul

 

No disrespect to January, but that 3 screen panel set up looks far from realistic to me with a hodgepodge of panels on each screen. I cant see how anyone could enjoy flying or looking at that compared to a beautiful VC.

 

Jim Burke

Looking for a new ping pong gif. Already used a few in these 2d threads. Don't want to rehash the gifs. Need to stay fresh in these stale threads.

Jim- you are quite right- it is a hodgepodge of 2D pop-up panels and not very true to life- except that all gauges and instruments are fixed and instantly available relative to the pilot's eyes. My intent with the pic, was to show the need for "width" in panel display 

 

But you miss the point that a 2D full width triple monitor panel could perhaps be created from existing virtual, "works of art" panels.

 

What I'm lobbying for is to retain the superb virtual panel artwork but provide an option for it to behave in a manner like fixed real world cockpit panels- no panning / no zooming and fixed relative to the pilot's eyes. 

That requires WIDTH which can only be achieved with multiple monitors. (Or multiple projectors as in commercial simulators.)

january

Found one.

 

 

 

2D or 3D it's really down to the developer's skill and intention. There are some really bad 3D panels that distort switches and gauges so much that the it is totally unrealistic. I also agree about having to pan around a VC panel (That is in real life totally unrealistic). It means looking away from a critical instrument to do do something else whereas in reality you would have both in view!.

There are also some really bad 2D panels with incorrect eyelines oversized/undersized isntruments etc.

However when a developer takes care to get the perspective and proportions correct a 2D panel works very well. For example on the VC10  I sit facing the left of the screen (directly in front of the T) and scan to the right without panning. That is certainly more natural.

 

At least with the 777 VC everything is well proprtioned and they have taken the trouble to preserve perspective from every angle.

What aircraft are you guys flying in tis day and age, where a VC is unusable?

 

Freeware ports from FS98?

 

Those that thing you dont "pan around" in a real real aircraft are kidding yourselves yeah?

 

Do you only ever look dead ahead driving your car?

 

Uh oh, cant see the CD player controls...better click and drag the whole CD player in front of my face because I have no neck

Hi

 

I am fully aware by now that there is no 2D panel and i am not a computer expert or developer by any stretch of the imagination but how hard can it be to create/make a 2D panel for this aircraft for anyone who wishes to use it? Im not made of money and dont have the best graphics card and so by using the 2D cockpit over the VC it helps a lot with my FPS and ease of use.

 

Thanks

 

Nath 

 

Lol   don't you love it  when the 2d  topics  appear, its like  the sun isn't  going  to come up the next day