What's happening to the simmers!

[stretch1365 40]

Hi all,

 

I was just reading through the thread on PMDG's announcement regarding their proposal's to include P3D in their licence arrangements in the future, mmmmm I thought very interesting news in this hobby of our's.

 

Then I started to scroll down and read the comments and the first dozen or so were constructive questions etc, until we got down to the "Fsx is a pile of rubbish, at last I can buy PMDG for P3D now". This is the kind of nastiness that seems to be creeping into the forums here. The PMDG forums before the 777 was released being a typical example of me me me me when will I get it, etc...............Well the simple answer is when developer decides to release it! It's really that simple!!

 

This set my mind thinking, and I realise people are like that in everyday life too. Every body wants things now. Nobody cares for anyone else anymore. We all live in a world driven by this kind of mentality. In our hobby for example there doesn't just seem to be people happy with fsx or P3D or Xplane who all come here for help and advice with their own setup. Now we seem to be turning into people who have to shout loudest and many times rudest, to force their own opinions on the rest of us. If people prefer P3D then great, for them. Some prefer Xplane great for them too. I prefer fsx, but I don't go round saying the others are rubbish, there not by the way! I prefer fsx, because it works well with my system, looks stunning is stable and I have too many addons collected over the years to throw away on a whim that some other platform is better!

 

I hope that some common sense might prevail here and we can all get back to doing what we do best, and that's enjoying our hobby, offer advice and help to those who ask for it and respect all the people who come here. PLEASE!

 

I understand the staff here must have a hard job to do, it can't be easy to keep all the children under control, but I do think Avsim has a bright future as it offers a whole range of help and advice and reviews in all our flight sim platforms which is great, a real one stop shop. Long may it continue. 

 

Now if we can all just be a bit more respectful and grown up maybe we can all get back to enjoying flying!

 

You know the worst thing with any flight sim is not the aircraft, platform, computer, addons or anything like that.....................It's the pilots!

[Tim_Capps 474]

I think there have always been people who don't hold opinions of others in much esteem. "X developer is complete garbage!" etc. Usually things are more nuanced than the absolutists would have it. Everyone has a right to their opinion. We agree, most of us, to temper our statements, however, in the interests of having a pleasant place to meet and talk. By the same token, we can paint the flight sim community with a broad brush. I'm not sure things are any more uncivil than in the past. Shrug and move to the next post, I guess.

[AirborneZed 168]

I don't understand why people want to stress how much they prefer p3d to xplane or xplane to p3d or fsx to blahhhhhhhhnoonecareshowmuchyouhatexplane.

 

Some folks just want their simulator to be hailed as THE best, no question. Even if it means starting a whole new topic about how xplane looks____. Or fsx sucks at doing ___.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

People are just happy that flight simming has a future. FSX is not the future, but now one has a choice between XP10 and P3d2.

[AirborneZed 168]

People are just happy that flight simming has a future. FSX is not the future, but now one has a choice between XP10 and P3d2.

 

I agree. Hovever, P3d2 has some catching up to do. We can't even connect to VATSIM at the moment. And who knows when that will be. Many addons still need porting over including scenery like FSDT. With a few more bug patches, P3dV2 will get to the point of FSX in stability (besides OOMs)

[Dillon 2,198]

What I'm seeing as far as P3D v2 is a active move to get the word out nothing more.  The larger issue you mention is sadly how the world is.  I come from years of being bashed for staying with FS9 because I had little time to twiddle/tweak FSX for the years it's taken to get it to a point people like you are satisfied with it.  Now we can't pry it out of your dead hands....  I was reading in a thread where a guy was trying to tweak when tweaking was not needed.  That's how far we've come from a common since perspective we should have to do this with software, that's what QA and beta testers are for.  I understand why there was a move by FSX users to get FS9er's over to FSX.  Many of these members like me remember the flood of add-ons coming out when we were all on one sim.  We have far less content coming out the way things are now.  FSX no matter how much you like it divided this community since it's been on the market.  Now that we have a superior product I find myself on the side FSXers were on against FS9 users (we need to get people off the old stuff onto the new).  That can only happen when people see the new stuff is actually better.  It's early in the game at this point but what going to be accomplished with P3D will eclipse anything FSX could ever do.  I would love to have most on one sim like we had with every other version before FSX, the flood of content in that reality is amazing.  So many ideas focused around one platform.  I have no qualms pushing that reality again for our community now that we have a very solid product to get behind.  By all means enjoy the sim you like don't get me wrong we've always done that but there always was that standard.  

[Groovin_DC-10 50]

Very well said, Dave.  I agree with you 100%.

 

I believe in the video gaming world, the people exhibiting some of behavior you described are referred to as "fan boys" or "Fanbois".

 

As an example... I'm really looking forward to getting one of the next gen console and I was reading a lot of articles online about PS4 and XBone.  The comment sections go on for days with fan boys trash talking the competitor's console and constantly trying to convince others to jump on their bandwagon.  And I see this on every article and the maturity level has reached that of a brainless and spoiled 5 year old.

 

I know it's not the exact same thing (console gamers vs flight simmers), but I'm surprised to see so much of it lately.  It's like so many people suddenly went into "hate mode" all of a sudden.

 

Now back to FS...  After reading impressions and watching some videos, I'm personally staying with FSX because other than a few eye candy, it really doesn't have much to offer for me and my personal needs as a simmer. 

 

For those who are enjoying P3D, I'm very happy for you and wish you and LM the best of luck.  I think it's great that there are quite a few sims available today and people can choose what is best for them according to what they're looking for and the hardware they're currently running.

 

But like you mentioned, it's the recent FSX bash fest that is quite rude. 

 

Be happy with what you have and don't judge others for preferring a different sim.  Afterall, we're all flight simmers and variety is an excellent thing.

[Air1 136]

That's after they beat MS Flight into the ground. Sorry I still love it for what it is and what it might have become, given a chance! But no one whats to hear that. I still fly it, FS9, FSX and Aerofly FS at this time. There has to be some of us still that just want to tool along low and slow and look out the window.

 

Steve

[Dillon 2,198]

But like you mentioned, it's the recent FSX bash fest that is quite rude. 

 

Be happy with what you have and don't judge others for preferring a different sim.  Afterall, we're all flight simmers and variety is an excellent thing.

 

 

I guess you don't know about the beating FS9ers have took since FSX's release.  I said the same thing as you, 'for the performance hit FSX offers little outside of visuals'.  FS9 still today has more add-ons total x3 to FSX's offerings.  There's far more freeware as well.  People told me for years this happens with each new version where people with the old stuff don't want to embrace the new.  I suspected this was going to be bad when Outerra opted to produce an FS platform and everyone casually dismissed it in favor of sticking with FSX.  They wouldn't give the effort a chance.  For everyone outside of FSX users you can't blame people who've been kicked in the virtual head for 7 years not to be happy with what we asked for back in 2006 becoming a reality.  X-Plane users are holding out as well but judging by what's came out for FSX with a less open development team, faulty software, and an SDK that could have had more,  P3D is going to wow everyone in the same time frame.   If we're going to say rude, FS9ers had to put up with the premature pulling of development by certain major developers, FSX users coming into the FS9 forums causing trouble, and the friends lost/egos burned since FSX has been on the market.  It was almost like North & South in this community, brother against brother.  There's people I no longer speak to since all this went down.  Part of this is my fault but just the same no one can come in and cast down others because the tables have turned.  That being said, two wrongs don't make a right but people are just excited and the comments about FSX are warranted (not personal attacks mind you).  People over the years stopped complaining about FSX and dealt with it because we thought that was if for FS, Microsoft jumped ship.  The backlash against FSX isn't all of a sudden it's always been there.  Heck, people had to doctor up Youtube videos to get a smooth playback to show off FSX online.  Who does that (unless your trying to be artistic)??? Who ever heard of something like that with a piece of software, certainly no game out there this has to be done.  It shouldn't take a piece of software 5-6 years before most people can use it.  2013 looks to be the final year something major has been produced for FS9.  After all this time FS9 should have been forgotten by all of us.   FSX was a bad release plain and simple.  I'm glade we have something great to move forward with.

 

So as always all this initial conversation will pass and we'll concentrate on enjoying this new edition to our hobby but any mention of FSX in the future as far as the 20+ year history will go FSX will go down as one of the worst releases of the franchise.  It's right up there with FS2000... Enjoy the sim you like I'm just happy I can finally take part in the latest greatest releases.  I'm sure others feel the same way.  June of 2003 to December of 2013 is a long time to wait for decent performing software.

That's after they beat MS Flight into the ground. Sorry I still love it for what it is and what it might have become, given a chance! But no one whats to hear that. I still fly it, FS9, FSX and Aerofly FS at this time. There has to be some of us still that just want to tool along low and slow and look out the window.

 

Steve

 

 

I still use Flight as well.  It's a shame once I upgrade my machine I can no longer get all my add-ons back... 

[Groovin_DC-10 50]

Dillon, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

I guess you don't know about the beating FS9ers have took since FSX's release.

I've heard about that back in the day. I experienced a little bit of it in the FS9 forum about a year ago.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the current FSX bashing are coming from FS9ers who just recently switched to P3D.

In fact, you're the only one I know on this forum going from FS9 to P3D.

 

Dillon, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

People told me for years this happens with each new version where people with the old stuff don't want to embrace the new.

With the newest P3D release, I don't think this is really the case. From what I've read around these forums, people who are choosing to stay with FSX are doing so for the same reason I am.

We don't see it as a huge jump or an FSX replacement. And $200 is not cheap.

I was very excited at first when reading about V2. I was most excited about the use of DX11, bloom and the volumetric fog. I actually planned to get it on launch after hearing about it but thought I should wait first.

Now after seeing the screens and videos, I changed my mind because because it's not the big graphical leap I had hoped for. I find FSX look just as nice with ENB. Shadows does nothing for me.

And again, that's just me. For others, the newer features make a big difference and worth the upgrade.

 

Dillon, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

For everyone outside of FSX users you can't blame people who've been kicked in the virtual head for 7 years not to be happy with what we asked for back in 2006 becoming a reality.

Again, I don't know where you're getting this. I don't think the negativity on FSX are coming from ex FS9 users.

 

But if that's how you see it, then okay... Why are you letting something like this get to you. Getting kicked in the virtual head for 7 years? You can simply ignore anyone who decides to mock FS9, take a break from the forums, go for a workout or whatever.  But I keep getting the feeling you're taking any negative things said about FS9 way too personally and it shows in the undertone of your posts. And I know you seem to have this hatred towards FSX.

 

I'm not blaming anybody for being happy. In fact, I'm happy that they're excited about P3D V2 and found something to switch to.

 

Dillon, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

If we're going to say rude, FS9ers had to put up with the premature pulling of development by certain major developers, FSX users coming into the FS9 forums causing trouble, and the friends lost/egos burned since FSX has been on the market.

Again with the FS9 thing.

 

But it's not FSX's fault the developers stopped developing for FS9. They chose to do it and I respect their decision for doing so. Most of these developers are small and preferred to focus on FSX instead of FS9. Even if I was an FS9 only flyer, I'd rather have them do that than not develop at all. It keeps the FS community going.

 

As for the FSX users coming into FS9 forums causing trouble.... there is no need for FS9er to get their egos burned. They chose to stay with FS9 and are very happy with that decision. Egos are hurt with the FS9 vs FSX debate because some people take things on a forum way too seriously. If someone is happy with FS9 and an FSX user comes in and troll the FS9 forum. Just tell them why you're sticking with FS9 and no amount of convincing will make you change your mind and ignore them after that because he's trolling. Once you get into an arguement with them, things will only get worse.

 

And it's also not FSX's fault if FS9 users lose friends on the forum because their friends decided to upgrade to FSX.

 

 

Dillon, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

the comments about FSX are warranted (not personal attacks mind you).

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. You said the majority of FS9 bashing was 7 years ago. That's 7 years. I honestly don't know anyone that can hold a grudge for that long. Within 7 years I feel people would at least become more understanding and open minded instead of waiting for the proper time to initiate their attacks/revenge.

 

Dillon, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

People over the years stopped complaining about FSX and dealt with it because we thought that was if for FS, Microsoft jumped ship. The backlash against FSX isn't all of a sudden it's always been there. Heck, people had to doctor up Youtube videos to get a smooth playback to show off FSX online. Who does that (unless your trying to be artistic)??? Who ever heard of something like that with a piece of software, certainly no game out there this has to be done. It shouldn't take a piece of software 5-6 years before most people can use it. 2013 looks to be the final year something major has been produced for FS9. After all this time FS9 should have been forgotten by all of us. FSX was a bad release plain and simple. I'm glade we have something great to move forward with.

I don't blame them for doctoring up FSX youtube videos. They weren't trying to fool people. They wanted their video to have smooth frames. Using Fraps will kill your fps. When I watch FSX videos on youtube, smooth frames is a big plus. It makes the video a lot better. Not to mention, most of these people are trying to replicate reality with the videos by using real sound and visual enhancements. So it makes perfect sense they'd want to make the video as smooth as possible. Even with the best sounds and visual enhancements, if your fps is bad, it takes away from the realism.

 

I don't think it took 5-6 years until most people were able to use it. To use it with very high settings, yes, it took a long time. But I'm sure the Aces team wanted to take advantage of future hardware. Back in those days, everyone assumed that processor speed will increase every year. Nobody imagined it would stop at around 3.5ghz until today.

 

I sure won't forget FS9 in 2014. I'll still be flying it along with FSX as long as I'm still into flight sims. And I'm also glad people who have been looking to move on have something to move on to.

 

Dillon, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

any mention of FSX in the future as far as the 20+ year history will go FSX will go down as one of the worst releases of the franchise

That's not how I see it (and I'm sure a lot would agree with me). I feel FSX is the best release in the series by Microsoft.

 

Dillon, on 26 Nov 2013 - 8:52 PM, said:

 

June of 2003 to December of 2013 is a long time to wait for decent performing software.

Yes it is a long time, but it was you who decided to wait until 2013. You didn't want to go with FSX. Even back in 2008-2009, FSX was already considered a decent performing software as long as you're not trying to max out every slider while using PMDG.

My PC is basically trash compared to what others are running here, but I can run FSX smooth using the NGX and other add ons without OOM or CTD. My PC specs is quite similar to what you would get on a gaming PC back in 2009.

[Tim_Capps 474]

The future is FSX. For me. I am in the position of the FS9 folks who didn't want to switch. I have everything I want , and finally have a computer that runs it well. The last thing I want is to start over with a new sim, wondering which of my favorite airplanes and sceneries are going to work. So I'll live in my FSX bubble, but won't be a killjoy toward anyone else. As for FS9 vs. FSX, the inexplicable sourness from a few went both ways.

 

There are probably people just delighted with Abacus products, and if that's where they're at in their hobby, then great! It somehow seems pretty low to trash the other kids' toys on the playground. I happen to enjoy Captain Sim products, especially the classics. (Although I just issued an airworthiness directive grounding my CS 757s <_< ) It's not fun when you come onto a forum and people are continually bashing your favorite airplane, or criticizing your sim. It just brings the forum down.

 

Like 99% of the problems in the world, it comes down to ego. Some people want to associate themselves with what's hot, and pile on what's not. Just human nature. (I'm talking about the attitudes, not the legitimate opinions and enthusiasm. You can always have a civil discussion about the good points and not so good points of things. But we seem to see a lot of strongly-worded blanket conclusions that imply only absolute idiots would think otherwise.)

 

Heck, after seeing teasers of the 737 for X-Plane, THAT might be the future of the hobby. It's been awhile since I tried it, but if they came out with a few jetliners equal to or superior to what's available now, they could reach the tipping point pretty quickly.

 

In retrospect, I have sometimes wondered whether I did the smart thing in moving from FS9 to FSX. But the airliners I enjoy flying now are mostly available only for FSX. (QW757 and iFly 737 are the two exceptions that come to mind.) So I think I made the right choice. Like everyone else, I'll be watching developments with interest, but it will take (1) a significant improvement over FSX; (2) the ability to fly my favorite FSX airplanes; and (3) it is going to have to be easy to install and maintain without learning a bunch of new tweaks.

 

Three greens, my friends!

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

I think a great deal of the reactions can be explained simply by the excitement the release of P3Dv2 has caused.

[Dillon 2,198]

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. You said the majority of FS9 bashing was 7 years ago. That's 7 years. I honestly don't know anyone that can hold a grudge for that long. Within 7 years I feel people would at least become more understanding and open minded instead of waiting for the proper time to initiate their attacks/revenge.

 

For clarification most of the bashing was not isolated to a time frame, it's been ongoing to this day. The peak was right before the Avsim crash. Things were at a fever pitch back then. After the crash when Avsim got things back up things settled down but there were still slams. No one is taking things personally and it sounds like you were above the fray with all this but it was worse than I've ever seen it in comparison to the FS2k2/FS9 years when those were our main sims. I for one was frustrated MS would release a product like FSX so I was very vocal. Those like yourself got frustrated with me and others making a big deal about it because you just accepted the software, bought hardware over and over with marginal results, and tweaked to no end cruising these forums looking for that magic bullet. I thought that was ridicules over the last 7 years but that's just me. With large enough wings a rock could fly and that's what's happened in the last three years. You need so much power to get FSX to run right, more than it should take. Even today there's a certain type of setup I need along with tweaking to use FSX. I can't do like P3D v2, get a mid-range PC by today's standard and a great video card and be on my way. Again I don't know what your story is but there was allot of arguing over most of the FSX years that was non stop. Tom had to crack down on it and the acceptance really settled in after Aces was disbanded. All this was not isolated to Avsim either.

 

Outside of you some have been really condescending to others. It's the same rivalry likened to the nerds and the jocks. It happens throughout our society and as of late we have a 'No Bullying' movement. Believe me it's not personal on my end just a frustration of a cumbersome product being put on the market, worse that we ever seen it. Now it's running for many people have short memories about the teething problems FSX had for years. Here's my specs, I can run every sim solution out there the exception being FSX (my machine was built 5 years after FSX's release) and of course the new P3D:

 

Dell Duo Core 2.66 1333FSB - Windows 7 Pro 64Bit 4Gigs Ram

NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 w/1gig Memory

[Kyle Schurb 89]

Here's my specs, I can run every sim solution out there the exception being FSX (my machine was built 5 years after FSX's release):

 

Dell Duo Core 2.66 1333FSB - Windows 7 Pro 64Bit 4Gigs Ram

NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 w/1gig Memory

 

...and P3D since the card (AFAIK) is not DX11.

 

Add me to the list of people who will be jumping from FS9 to P3D, for what it's worth.

[Dillon 2,198]

...and P3D since the card (AFAIK) is not DX11.

 

Add me to the list of people who will be jumping from FS9 to P3D, for what it's worth.

 

 

Your right, I said this knowing P3D is not even in the running. That being said I wounder could I run P3D with just a video card update?  Wishful thinking I know...