I had a go in the 172 this evening just in case I was dreaming I was that good. :smile:  No, I am that good! :biggrin:  60 on approach, 50 over the fence, 45ish over the numbers. Super! I did a go around and this time I took no notice of airspeed etc. just flew by feel. You I really do think that a 70 approach feels right but floaty floaty for evah results. It's all about speed management.

Sounds good to me, Ron! 

 

Hook

Damn that's slow.... I remember 70

On base and 60 on final in the warrior.

Installed equipment is going to change your flight characteristics subtly.  For example, I fly without flap seals, so I get a bit more drag.  The aircraft acts a bit like it has winglets installed, which will change the drag, lift and stall speeds. 

 

I suspect the POH numbers and flight model are calculated for a 2550 gross weight for the 172S, while the 172R is 2450.  This is just a wild guess, of course and I'm grasping at straws here.  If you carry a little extra weight, your approach speeds will be higher.

Well, call me a monkey's uncle, but I took the fairings, flap seals, and S prop off my hotted up 172 and then loaded it to 2500...  guess what? The POH numbers make total sense now. With this setup I can plant that baby within a 50ft square. Similiar to what Ron said... 55kts over 50 foot obstacle... 50 knots on pitch down.... 45 at threshhold... beep! rumble rumble... (I was on dirt). Wow, that felt good. I suspect this plane might become a bush flying favorite for me afterall. There is of course the negative aspect that takeoffs were much harder (I even checked density altitude because the difference was so great, but DA was -1400ft). Cruising speed was also slower. If you want a fast lift-happy Cessna and one that will do short field easy, those two things might not go together well. When I go bush flying now, I am leaving the go-fast parts off. Anyway, off to some more dirt strips... this finally became fun. Thanks for the fruitful discussion guys.

Ahhh good point. I put all the speed mods on as well.

I'll be (virtually) selling my C172 when the Cherokee comes along!

 

Like Ryan I don't really go for basic trainers and probably won't fly it much, but it is always worth having a top quality A2A rendition for those moments when I do want a trainer...

 

.....only room for one in the hangar though :wink:  and I've always vastly preferred the PA28s over C172s in the real world.

Arghh, nevermind. No go-fast parts on it, 2,640 pound load, 45 knot approach, no obstacle into a 2,000 foot strip, and it just keeps floating in ground effect. 10 knot crosswind. Starting to think this is weather related, maybe sensitive to updrafts or something. Cant get a feel for it, putting it aside for now. Still appreciate the tips from everyone though.   

The header of the A2A website has a picture of the Cherokee. Not that I'm trying to get anyone excited... 

BeechPapa, there should never be any pitch down on the landing approach. Not on regular or on short field. Short field with full flaps and trimmed for 55 on steep approach over the tops of the trees, and you should keep pitch attitude until flare at about 10-20 feet (higher or lower depending on how steep your approach is). Do you have any throttle still on during these final phases?

 

Pitching down will always increase airspeed and make you float longer. You finish the landing by pitching up once enough airspeed has been lost to hold her off as long as possible. You don't land the airplane intentionally. You try to keep her flying right above the runway with no throttle until she quits on you and settles that last foot or so.

 

 

You try to keep her flying right above the runway with no throttle until she quits on you and settles that last foot or so.

 

Nicely put. :good:

 

 

BeechPapa, there should...

Precisely.

I've been flying approaches @ Gross Weight (2450 lbs for the "R" prop) 30° Flaps and 60kias on short final.  Power comes out before starting the flare.

Hold the nose at the same pitch attitude until starting the roundout, increasing backpressure to flare into a nose high attitude.

You can hold it off right above the runway (a foot or so) and get the stall warning prior to contact.

If the airspeed is on target for the A2A C172, you shouldn't see "excessive" float.

Where I fly we are taught to come with power until landing is assured, then remove all power, full flap, nose down and keep the VREF speed until crossing the threashold, then start the flare to keep the plane flying above the runway until it quits flying.

 

The landing where you keep power until starting flare is usually for Short Landing, where you keep speed with pitch, and power to keep the low angle approach until you're ready to touch then runway, close the throttle and flare a little.

 

Of course when you start flying bigger planes you won't be able to do this technique of power off because it will sink too fast, some planes need power all the way to touch down, but a Cessna 172 really doesn't.

Too modern for me. This is what a Cherokee dash should look like! B)

 

Lionheart make a Piper with a dash rather like that. :-)