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Gregg_Seipp

My new sim machine

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Hi all,
 
I'm ordering a new machine:

  • Intel Core i7 4770K Quad Core Unlocked Processor: 3.5GHz, 8MB L3 Cache, On-Chip Graphics,Socket 1150
  • Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H Motherboard, ATX, So. 1150, Gb LAN, RAID, Video Output, SATA 6G, CrossFire, SLI
  • Corsair XMS3 16GB kit (2x8GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600MHz) Memory
  • Samsung 840 EVO 250GB Solid State Drive, SATA 6Gbps, 2.5"
  • Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA/6G Hard Drive, 3.5"
  • Blue Ray/DVD
  • Either a Corsair or Thermaltake case
  • Noctua NH-U14S for Intel LGA 2011,1156,1155, 1150 and AMD AM2/AM2+/AM3/3+,FM1/2 Sockets, U Type, 6 Heatpipe,140mm CPU Cooler Cooling
  • EVGA GeForce GTX 770 Superclocked with ACX Cooler 4 GB GDDR5 256-Bit Dual-Link DVI-I/DVI-D HDMI DP SLI Ready Graphcs Card 04G-P4-3774-KR
  • Windows 7 Professional

Questions:

  • Is it a good system?  Any obvious weaknesses?
  • How to configure FSX and Prepare3D on it.  It has 250 Gig SSD.  But I want to install FSX and Prepare3D 2.2, FTX Global, Vector, Landclass, PNW, NorCal, Megascenery Socal, other scenery, Ultimate Traffic.  Would I install the OS on the Caviar drive and install the sims on the SSD?  Would they fit?  Where to put the Virtual Memory?

Thanks in advance,

Gregg

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Deeeeyaaamm - that's a nice system.

 

Personally, I would put the OS on the SSD and the "base" FSX/P3D files. But, as you hinted, you are looking at a LOT of bulk storage, and I would put all your terrain stuff on the WD drive.

 

Nice system!

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With that rig, you'll need a 'dual exaust' system !!

 

Nice setup. I have a Noctua NH-D14 which is excellent for discipating heat but which forces me to use low-profile memory sticks. I don't know if the model that you've chosen has more headroom than the model I use. I've read good reviews about Thermalright Archon SB-E X2 (on a par with Noctua) which allows the installation of standard memory sticks (at least with socket 1150 I believe). You may want to check it out at  http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2013/04/03/thermalright-archon-sb-e-x2-review/1 Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a reseller here in Canada.

 

JJ

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With that rig, you'll need a 'dual exaust' system !!

 

Nice setup. I have a Noctua NH-D14 which is excellent for discipating heat but which forces me to use low-profile memory sticks. I don't know if the model that you've chosen has more headroom than the model I use. I've read good reviews about Thermalright Archon SB-E X2 (on a par with Noctua) which allows the installation of standard memory sticks (at least with socket 1150 I believe). You may want to check it out at  http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2013/04/03/thermalright-archon-sb-e-x2-review/1 Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a reseller here in Canada.

 

JJ

 

LOL...thanks.  I've been lurking this forum for some time, collecting thoughts, ideas, etc.  It's tough to figure it all out.  Here's a picture of the Motherboard...

 

9fc1_6.jpg

 

I was hoping that the memory would be far enough away that it wouldn't be a problem.  The compatibility table at Noctua says that it's compatible.  Some boards it lists that the fan extends over the memory.  This one, it says it does not.  I found the ThermalRight unit you mentioned at FrozenCPU.com so I'll keep that idea in the back of my head in case I need it.

 

Thanks!

Gregg

Deeeeyaaamm - that's a nice system.

 

Personally, I would put the OS on the SSD and the "base" FSX/P3D files. But, as you hinted, you are looking at a LOT of bulk storage, and I would put all your terrain stuff on the WD drive.

 

Nice system!

 

Somewhere I saw that someone had 'linked' a directory from another drive into their FSX.  So, they had FSX on a smaller drive but kept their scenery on another.  Not sure if that's wise or possible.  I read all the posts about folks so happy they have an SSD...very fast startup times.  It'd be nice to have mine set up that way.

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Have you had SSDs before?

 

Once you try them you don't want to go back to HDD ever again.

 

The 250GB is too little to install FS but too much for just the OS. I would get a 120GB to install OS and minor programs AND a 1TB SSD to install FSX.

 

I see money is not an issue on your system, so do yourself a big favor and get a 1TB SSD for your FSX and flight sim ONLY. If you need additional dead storage (music, films, documents etc.) get an HDD, but consider having a large dedicated SSD for FSX (and P3D, XPlane, DCS etc...)

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Have you had SSDs before?



Once you try them you don't want to go back to HDD ever again.



The 250GB is too little to install FS but too much for just the OS. I would get a 120GB to install OS and minor programs AND a 1TB SSD to install FSX.



I see money is not an issue on your system, so do yourself a big favor and get a 1TB SSD for your FSX and flight sim ONLY. If you need additional dead storage (music, films, documents etc.) get an HDD, but consider having a large dedicated SSD for FSX (and P3D, XPlane, DCS etc...)

 

I have an SSD in my laptop and it starts amazingly fast.  Love it.  I'll have to see if I can get at least a 512GB SSD instead of the Caviar.

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The 250GB is too little to install FS but too much for just the OS. I would get a 120GB to install OS and minor programs AND a 1TB SSD to install FSX.

Alpha Floor is right on target here.  Speaking from experience I had a 40 GB SSD for my OS (Too Small but it was back when a 250GB was about the largest you could buy) I Also had A 120GB then a 250GB then another 250 GB.  The thing about HD space, especially SSD's, is that they tend to fill quicker than you'd think or at least thats been my experience.  I have tried keeping my files streamlined and by doing so and not installing everything under the sun a 250 GB drive can work fine but if your going to run multiple Sims FSX, XP10 and P3D then it's not enough.

In my own system I have went to a 120GB SSD for the OS. a 500GB Samsung 840 EVO just like yours for my Sims and then a couple standard large capacity drives for general storage. I even use an older 300GB Velociraptor as my 30 day scratch/ temp drive that I download and extract files to then routinely wipe.  At this point I'm not sure the 500GB EVO is enough but seeing how easy it is to drag and drop XP10 to another disk to gain another 90-100GB it'll work fine...for now.

 

You picked some good gear your going to like it for sure!

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•Noctua NH-U14S

If you intend to overclock, I would consider the NH-D14. Or, for no issues regarding RAM clearance, the Thermalright Archon SB-EX2.

 

Why only 1600 MHz RAM? Consider 2133 with decent timings.

 

Corsair Dominator GT fits under a D14, once the fins are removed, they screw on. The fins make no difference to cooling at all, it's just a gimmick.

 

Corsair also make low profile RAM.

 

Have you considered Ivy bridge-E? Should overclock better than Haswell. No TIM under the IHS, instead an epoxy solder.

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Hi all,

 

I'm ordering a new machine:

  • Intel Core i7 4770K Quad Core Unlocked Processor: 3.5GHz, 8MB L3 Cache, On-Chip Graphics,Socket 1150
  • Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H Motherboard, ATX, So. 1150, Gb LAN, RAID, Video Output, SATA 6G, CrossFire, SLI
  • Corsair XMS3 16GB kit (2x8GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600MHz) Memory
  • Samsung 840 EVO 250GB Solid State Drive, SATA 6Gbps, 2.5"
  • Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA/6G Hard Drive, 3.5"
  • Blue Ray/DVD
  • Either a Corsair or Thermaltake case
  • Noctua NH-U14S for Intel LGA 2011,1156,1155, 1150 and AMD AM2/AM2+/AM3/3+,FM1/2 Sockets, U Type, 6 Heatpipe,140mm CPU Cooler Cooling
  • EVGA GeForce GTX 770 Superclocked with ACX Cooler 4 GB GDDR5 256-Bit Dual-Link DVI-I/DVI-D HDMI DP SLI Ready Graphcs Card 04G-P4-3774-KR
  • Windows 7 Professional

Questions:

  • Is it a good system?  Any obvious weaknesses?
  • How to configure FSX and Prepare3D on it.  It has 250 Gig SSD.  But I want to install FSX and Prepare3D 2.2, FTX Global, Vector, Landclass, PNW, NorCal, Megascenery Socal, other scenery, Ultimate Traffic.  Would I install the OS on the Caviar drive and install the sims on the SSD?  Would they fit?  Where to put the Virtual Memory?

Thanks in advance,

Gregg

If you can wait a few months wait till haswell refresh you'd be better off since If your going to overclock the new TIM is gonna be alot better should drop the temps by 20C

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Well if budget is not in the way why not get a GTX780ti and Faster Memory with low timing and the larger SSD.

Apart from that its perfect

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should drop the temps by 20C

 

Wow...20C.  I have to admit it's tempting.  On the other hand, I've been sitting on this, waiting for over 6 months already.  I think there's always something better coming and you can get into eternal hold.  If this would run the sim well then I'd just pick this as the moment.  I'm not looking for massive overclocking...seems like 4.2-4.3 would be fine and I'd be ecstatic if I could get to 4.5 without much noise.  It seems like P3D is coming up fast...though add on companies now have to get to work to bring on the goodies...so overclocking might not be so critical?

 

 

Well if budget is not in the way why not get a GTX780ti and Faster Memory with low timing and the larger SSD.

 

Is the 780 Ti that much faster?  It's all the little pieces that add to a big pricetag and the 780Ti is $700...not quite double the $400 that the 770 costs.  I'll see if I can get the faster ram.  I'm buying everything but the cooler and the video card from a local company.  Maybe they can order it.

 

 

If you intend to overclock, I would consider the NH-D14. Or, for no issues regarding RAM clearance, the Thermalright Archon SB-EX2.

 

Why only 1600 MHz RAM? Consider 2133 with decent timings.

 

Corsair Dominator GT fits under a D14, once the fins are removed, they screw on. The fins make no difference to cooling at all, it's just a gimmick.

 

Corsair also make low profile RAM.

 

Have you considered Ivy bridge-E? Should overclock better than Haswell. No TIM under the IHS, instead an epoxy solder.

 

The NH-U14 looks like the model that's compatible with the motherboard.  Am I missing something there?

 

I'm not much of an overclocker.  They have Haswell where I'm buying the system and they're putting it together.  I can ask if they have epoxy solder but not sure if they'll do that.

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Wow...20C.  I have to admit it's tempting.  On the other hand, I've been sitting on this, waiting for over 6 months already.  I think there's always something better coming and you can get into eternal hold.  If this would run the sim well then I'd just pick this as the moment.  I'm not looking for massive overclocking...seems like 4.2-4.3 would be fine and I'd be ecstatic if I could get to 4.5 without much noise.  It seems like P3D is coming up fast...though add on companies now have to get to work to bring on the goodies...so overclocking might not be so critical?

 

 

 

Is the 780 Ti that much faster?  It's all the little pieces that add to a big pricetag and the 780Ti is $700...not quite double the $400 that the 770 costs.  I'll see if I can get the faster ram.  I'm buying everything but the cooler and the video card from a local company.  Maybe they can order it.

 

 

 

The NH-U14 looks like the model that's compatible with the motherboard.  Am I missing something there?

 

I'm not much of an overclocker.  They have Haswell where I'm buying the system and they're putting it together.  I can ask if they have epoxy solder but not sure if they'll do that.

P3d still uses the CPU alot more then GPU thats why Im going from a 4.5ghz AMD to a I5-4690K when refresh comes out because intel CPU's are better for FSX/P3d as they demand single core performance.(Intels are so much better that a stock 3.5 GHZ Haswell beats my overclocked 4.5ghz AMD by 28% in single core performance)

The issue with the current Haswell is most chips are maxed a 4.3 overclock with the crappy TIM intel uses but with refresh they might be albe to hit 5GHZ pretty easily like the old I5 2500K's which alot of people run at 5-5.2 ghz pretty easily. I'd wait its only a few months and the prices on the New cpus are the same as the current ones. If you do get current gen haswell and want to get to 4.5GHZ plan on de-lidding it and thats just not somthing Im willing to do as you can destroy your new $340 CPU. Also you might consider the i5's as FSX and P3d don't use hyper-threading so unless you do alot  video editing and such the i7's are kinda a waste of money as most modern games only use two cores at max

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Is the 780 Ti that much faster?

 

I understand it is based on what I read on Simforums when it came out. But for FSX is so CPU bond that I doubt if you would see a difference between a GTX 780 and GTX 780Ti. However you might in P3DV2.

 

Nick Needham said at the he wrote his Haswell build guide that the best GPU to use with an i7 4770k was the GTX 780.

 

Having said all of that P3DV2.2 is here tomorrow and I really cant see FSX lasting much longer on my system. In fact I use P3DV2 exclusively now and SLI is just around the corner.

 

I am running an i7 4770k at 4.8ghz and although mine is delided it could still do that before I delided it. It is however a crap shoot with the i7 4770k you can get a good one or you can get a bad one. No amount of exotic cooling or deliding will  not yeild a high OC

 

Here is mine

 

i7 4770k

GTX 780

Asus Sabertooth Z87

8GB G-skill 2400mhz CL9

Samsung 840 Pro 128gb with windows 7 64bit

Samsung 840 Pro 256 for FSX soon to be replaced with P3DV2

Samsung 840 Pro 256 for X-Plane 10 and P3DV2

2TB HDD  outside 1TB partition FSX performance inside 1TB partition dead storage

2TB HDD  outside 1TB partition X-plane 10 performance inside 1TB partition dead storage

 

My plane is to add a second GTX780 and perhaps a third once LM announces SLI support.

 

I would plan your system based on P3DV2

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I would plan your system based on P3DV2

 

Probably wise.  it's probably not yet PC to say, but P3D is really making leaps and bounds.  In time, developers will turn their attention from FSX, aircraft addons that replace RXP will be integrated.  I was opting for the 770 because of both the price as well as the extra gig of video ram.

 

Gregg

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Why only 1600 MHz RAM? Consider 2133

Was just going to recommend this! Anything after sandy bridge likes faster RAM 2133/2400 if you can

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Probably wise.  it's probably not yet PC to say, but P3D is really making leaps and bounds.  In time, developers will turn their attention from FSX, aircraft addons that replace RXP will be integrated.  I was opting for the 770 because of both the price as well as the extra gig of video ram.

 

Gregg

I have the 770GTX 4gb and its more than enough for p3dv2 infact I hear from 780 users that at times all 3gb of vram is used. The 770 is a good middle of the road till the Titans come down in price

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The NH-U14 looks like the model that's compatible with the motherboard. Am I missing something there?

 

 

 

Almost all coolers come with the relevant back plate for your motherboard. It's not a specific cooler for a specific motherboard. The Thermalright Archon SBE-X2 is a single tower cooler, without any issues regarding RAM clearance [but do check anyway] but still performs almost as well as a twin tower huge NH-D14. It's a good price as well.

 

 

 

I'm not much of an overclocker. They have Haswell where I'm buying the system and they're putting it together. I can ask if they have epoxy solder but not sure if they'll do that.

 

 

 

You don't understand.

 

Haswell has thermal interface paste under the IHS.

 

A CPU has a printed circuit board. On top of that the CPU itself is mounted. On top of that Haswell has TIM, a thermal interface paste, just like the paste you spread on top of your CPU when you mount a cooler. On top of that Intel mount the head spreader. This is how the Haswell, and Ivy Bridge CPU's are manufactured by Intel.

 

Ivy Bridge-E is different, in that Intel have reverted to the old method of attaching the heat spreader to the CPU die. Namely an epoxy solder. Epoxy solder is a better heat transfer medium than TIM.

 

This is nothing that's configurable by you CPU supplier, it's inherent in the design of the CPU.

 

Given that you won't be overclocking significantly, it's not an issue for you. It would be something you should consider if you felt that in time, you may find yourself getting into overclocking and pushing the CPU to a higher overclock.

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Ok...so I made some changes based on everyone's advice (thank you!)...

  • Noctua NH-D14
  • Corsair Vengeance Pro Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 DRAM 2400MHz C11 Memory
  • 2 Samsung 840 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5-Inch SATA III

I'm planning on using Windows 7 Pro in order to be able to go higher on the memory.  Is that the thinking these days?

 

Gregg

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Make sure the D14 fits in your intended case... it's a big boy.

 

And that the RAM is low profile... or it won't fit under the D14. The standard Vengence Pro will probably not fit. vengeance low profile will.

 

This is what I use...

 

http://www.corsair.com/en/dominator-gt-1-5v-8gb-ddr3-memory-kit-with-dhx-pro-connector-and-airflow-2-fan-cmt8gx3m2b2133c9

 

The top fins are removable.

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Make sure the D14 fits in your intended case... it's a big boy.

And that the RAM is low profile... or it won't fit under the D14. The standard Vengence Pro will probably not fit. vengeance low profile will.

This is what I use...

http://www.corsair.c...mt8gx3m2b2133c9

The top fins are removable.

 

Yeah, good point.  I'll check to see if they fit.  I've seen some folks say that you can remove that plastic thingy they put on the memory pretty easily.  If not I'll be ordering what you got.


That's x64 right Gregg?

Yeah...64 bit  I've heard rumors that Microsoft will be doing DX12 for Windows 8 only...dunno if it's true.  But I thoroughly dislike messing with the Windows 8 interface.

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All the parts are in...in the process of putting it all together...ugh. 

 

Do you guys have an overclocking guide for a Gigabyte Z87 and the EVGA 770?  I have never overclocked before so I've got a pretty big learning curve with both.

 

Gregg

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DDR3 DRAM 2400MHz C11 Memory

 

That memory timing is weak!

 

With 2400mhz you should be aiming for CL9.

Mine is 2400 9-11-11-32

I don't know if it is still available but I will go look.

I actually run it at CL8 when it is cold enough

But it takes big voltage to do that.

 

Back shortly

 

Here you go:http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231638

 

I don't know if there is a 2x8gig kit bit this is what you want!

 

I assume you are using the system for something other than FSX? Perhaps X-Plane 10 64bit?

 

If not then 16 GB of RAM won't make any difference to FSX over 8GB is overkill for that

 

I really think you should get a 780 too:-)

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hat memory timing is weak!



With 2400mhz you should be aiming for CL9.

Mine is 2400 9-11-11-32

I don't know if it is still available but I will go look.

I actually run it at CL8 when it is cold enough

But it takes big voltage to do that.



Back shortly



Here you go:http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16820231638



I don't know if there is a 2x8gig kit bit this is what you want!



I assume you are using the system for something other than FSX? Perhaps X-Plane 10 64bit?



If not then 16 GB of RAM won't make any difference to FSX over 8GB



I really think you should get a 780 too:-)

 

I don't know anything about CL11...I was looking for higher Mhz.  Is this an important figure?

 

I went for the 770 because it had more RAM and it seems that the nVidea x70 cards have, historically, been bigger bang for the $$.  I guess I'll see.

 

Gregg

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I don't know anything about CL11...I was looking for higher Mhz. Is this an important figure?

 

Yes it is important! With Memory you are looking for the best performance and must consider both speed and timing.

Simple put (it is in fact a complex calculation at least for me :lol: ) you are looking for the best combination of

High speed and low timing for the best performance. for example 2000mhz CL8 is probably better than

2400mhz CL11. The higher the MHz number the better and the lower the CL number the better

 

The kit that I link to is the Kit that NickN recommends in the Haswell @ 4.8ghz on air thread. That about 5 months ago.

If you can find 2400mhz CL8 that's even better but that 2400mhz CL11 Kit would be a mistake!

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