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When should I handfly the T7?

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Hi all,

 

So far I took-off and switched the A/P passing 1 000 ft or so and I used autoland. I must confess that one of the reason is that I enjoy watching the aircraft from external view during take-off and landing.

 

Now I want to be closer to reality and I would like to handfly the T7.

 

At which 'precise' moment should I:

 

1) Switch to A/P after take-off?

 

2) Disconnect A/P before landing?

 

Thanks for your recommandations.

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I love hand flying the aircraft, especially the 777. On departure, I always hand fly it up to 20,000ft before flicking on the AP. On the descent, I usually take manaul control of the aircraft at around 5,000 feet or before the final turn onto final approach.

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So far I took-off and switched the A/P passing 1 000 ft or so and I used autoland. I must confess that one of the reason is that I enjoy watching the aircraft from external view during take-off and landing.

 

 

 

Now I want to be closer to reality and I would like to handfly the T7.

 

 

 

At which 'precise' moment should I:

 

 

 

1) Switch to A/P after take-off?

 

 

 

2) Disconnect A/P before landing?

 

 

 

Thanks for your recommandations.

 

 

Hi, Tony,

 

On landing, w/out an ILS, or when you receive a "no autoland message," you would be required to do a manual landing, but autothrottle on.  Of course you can also do a manual ILS landing (leave autothrottle on).

 

On takeoff you can arm LNAV & VNAV but not turn on the autopilot, and hand fly using the Flight Director (autothrottle should be on and will take care of thrust modes).

 

Mike

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I usually hand-fly takeoff to 10,000 feet and then hand-fly the arrival once I'm established on final if there is ATC (on vatsim) and usually I'll hand-fly whenever I feel like it if there is no ATC because if there's ATC I'm getting commands all the way down and don't have someone to write it down for me so trying to listen, read-back and execute commands is a little hard while trying to hand-fly.

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Since I don't have a copilot helping me out, I usually activate the auto pilot after takeoff, but disable it before capturing the localizer on approach unless the weather is really bad. It's too hard switching frequencies and doing the checklist while also flying.

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Hi all,

 

So far I took-off and switched the A/P passing 1 000 ft or so and I used autoland. I must confess that one of the reason is that I enjoy watching the aircraft from external view during take-off and landing.

 

Now I want to be closer to reality and I would like to handfly the T7.

 

At which 'precise' moment should I:

 

1) Switch to A/P after take-off?

 

2) Disconnect A/P before landing?

 

Thanks for your recommandations.

 

Theirs no 'precise moment'  You engage or disengage when you are comfortable or your workload permits.  It really is that simple.  Most guy's I know will start hand flying at 1000ft, the main reason is to avoid the hassle of getting busted by the QAR 

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It depends on workload and company SOP's, some guys I know start hand flying about 15-20 miles out and as for takeoff there are a few pilots within my airline who like to handfly all the way into the FL200 range and the company encourages that.

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Hi, Tony,

 

On landing, w/out an ILS, or when you receive a "no autoland message," you would be required to do a manual landing, but autothrottle on.  Of course you can also do a manual ILS landing (leave autothrottle on).

 

On takeoff you can arm LNAV & VNAV but not turn on the autopilot, and hand fly using the Flight Director (autothrottle should be on and will take care of thrust modes).

 

Mike

 

Mike I was trying an lnav & vnav flight and it was not adhering to the speeds an altitude in the fmc (this was cs777) I put on AP was this why it was not working ? thank you

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Mike I was trying an lnav & vnav flight and it was not adhering to the speeds an altitude in the fmc (this was cs777) I put on AP was this why it was not working ? thank you

 

Why are you asking about the CS777 in a PMDG forum?

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Ah a 777 is a 777 who ever makes it - just an operations general question 

 

By the way stupid question on my part as of course the AP needs to be turned on must be an error in my fmc programming 

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Ah a 777 is a 777 who ever makes it - just an operations general question 

I could see why he asked that question. Depending on how one read the question, if he thought it was a question regarding a bug in the aircraft, PMDG wouldn't be able to do much in regards to the CS 777. I personally had to read the question a couple times before I finally figured out what was going on.

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I could see why he asked that question. Depending on how one read the question, if he thought it was a question regarding a bug in the aircraft, PMDG wouldn't be able to do much in regards to the CS 777. I personally had to read the question a couple times before I finally figured out what was going on.

 

 

Yup that makes sense - thanks

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  1. When you feel like it
  2. When you're thinking "what the [you know...] is it doing?"

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1: When you have to (No Autoland on NPA's)
2: When you want to.

 

Obviously you can't use the Autopilot to do things that the Autopilot can't do.

Obviously you should turn the Autopilot off when it does something you don't want it to do.

If you are handflying, you should obviously be looking at your attitude, speed, altitude etc.

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Well I disengage/engage the auto-pilot once I feel comfortable, depending on weather. For example I know a real life captain who disengaged auto pilot at 8000 ft(weather was very good, clear skies....)

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It sounds to me like you should turn on failures. One of the most overlooked features of PMDG. Get out your QRH and go to town....

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Mike I was trying an lnav & vnav flight and it was not adhering to the speeds an altitude in the fmc (this was cs777) I put on AP was this why it was not working ? thank you
 

Hi, Richard,

 

I had no trouble understanding your question.  A 777 made by CS should fly the same as one made by PMDG or PSS.  Possibly you need to fly the takeoff differently, but possibly the CS 777 isn’t behaving properly.  For takeoff, as I understand it VNAV and LNAV are almost always armed.  But VNAV does not kick in until 400 ft AGL.  The autothrottle (which should be turned on during the takeoff roll) will set a steady thrust – it should maintain a preselected takeoff thrust until reaching the thrust reduction altitude and then a preselected climb thrust.  The autothrottle does not change thrust to control speed during takeoff and climb; you have to do that by pitching up to decrease speed and pitching down to increase speed.  The FD will give you guidance on this.  Once you engage the autopilot it should do the same thing automatically.  Until it reaches the first altitude limit (often in your STAR, or else the altitude set in the ALT window of your autopilot) the autopilot will continue to control speed by changing pitch and the autothrottle will maintain a steady thrust.  At a level altitude, the autothrottle will control speed by changing the thrust.  In all further climbs the autothrottle will set a steady climb thrust and the autopilot, in VNAV, will control speed by changing the pitch.  Once it passes a STAR altitude constraint it should start climbing again.  If it is at the altitude set in the ALT window and you raise the altitude setting, it should start climbing again.  You will probably need to click on the center of the altitude nob on the autopilot to start the climb. 

If the CS 777 is not doing this, then it may not be operating properly.  I have not been near my FS computer since version 1.4 was released.   In earlier versions the autothrottle did not switch from takeoff thrust to climb thrust when it should have, and the PFD did not accurately display the target speed the autopilot (or you, if hand flying and using the FD) were pitching for (magenta number upper left).  There were other issues as well.  Perhaps all of this has been fixed.  Also the CS 777 did not come with a very detailed manual or tutorial – I don’t know if this has been fixed either.  

Please let us know if this helps!

Mike
 

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A 777 made by CS should fly the same as one made by PMDG or PSS.

If the FDE was exactly the same for all three, perhaps. But how can you expect it to fly the same if different people are designing the FDEs for all three 777s. In an ideal world, all three would fly the same, but then again, this isn't an ideal world, so it doesn't quite work like that.

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If the FDE was exactly the same for all three, perhaps. But how can you expect it to fly the same if different people are designing the FDEs for all three 777s. In an ideal world, all three would fly the same, but then again, this isn't an ideal world, so it doesn't quite work like that.

 

Hi, Kevin,

 

I did not mean that they will or should fly exactly the same.  But what I described is correct operation of VNAV and the autothrottle, which should be the same for any complex version of the 777, even if there are major differences in how they fly.     What I described is how the PSS 777 operates. as far as I can remember, as well as how the PMDG version operates.

 

Mike

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I like to do the clean up manually and then maybe one or two turns.

Usually after take off you only have one or two tight turns.

Those are fun to do.

Once the SID (or an ATC direct) goes straight out for more than 10nm I get bored and engage the AP :-)

Also, the AP flies more efficient/accurate than most of us, so you save some fuel by not manually climbing all the way to cruise FL (but who cares in flightsim right).

 

For approach the same thing.

It is fun to be flying manually while extending flaps and re-trimming the airplane while slowing down.

But as we know, the problem is that we have to wait for SP1 for realistic trim behavior.

So as it stands, I dont take the PMDG over manually untill I have gear down/flaps 30.

Other than that I think it is good practice to at least try to manually intercept the ILS/GS once and in a while.

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Hi, Kevin,

 

I did not mean that they will or should fly exactly the same.  But what I described is correct operation of VNAV and the autothrottle, which should be the same for any complex version of the 777, even if there are major differences in how they fly.     What I described is how the PSS 777 operates. as far as I can remember, as well as how the PMDG version operates.

 

Mike

Sure, they should be the same. Key word being should. What should happen and what actually happens are two completely different things, and again, that comes down to the coding of the aircraft. In my experience with the PSS 777, when I'm running either VNAV or FLCH during the climb, initially, it'll maintain something like 92% N1 during the climb, and at a certain altitude, around the upper flight level 300 or so, I don't remember exact values, it somehow pegs the N1 up to 101% or so. I've never come across a plane that did that, and I'd be surprised if the PMDG 777 actually did that (I don't own the PMDG 777, so I can't comment on that). A gradual increase in thrust is one thing, but it was something that suddenly happened with the PSS 777.

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Hi all,

 

Thank you very much for the feedback on your hand flying practice.

 

It does answer to my question and highlight what I should do.

 

Since last april, I've learned a lot here  B)

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In my experience with the PSS 777, when I'm running either VNAV or FLCH during the climb, initially, it'll maintain something like 92% N1 during the climb, and at a certain altitude, around the upper flight level 300 or so, I don't remember exact values, it somehow pegs the N1 up to 101% or so. I've never come across a plane that did that, and I'd be surprised if the PMDG 777 actually did that (I don't own the PMDG 777, so I can't comment on that). A gradual increase in thrust is one thing, but it was something that suddenly happened with the PSS 777.

 

There is a "washout" altitude at which the 777 switches from a derated climb (if selected) to full climb thrust.  It is selectable in the PMDG version, don't recall the PSS  or CS versions.  But FL300 seems much too high.

 

Mike

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In the day, B52 autopilot on after reaching cruise altitude.  Autopilot off from descent to landing.

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