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NGX update?

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Please use the search .This horse has already been beaten to death...

 Why do you think I posted here?

 

Another self-righteous forum cop.

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FYI the latest thread

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/445889-ngx-sp2/#entry3024628

 

Nobody knows when and there have been two threads staarted today asking the same question..I am sure you would agree that you dont wanna see 10 separate threads asking the same question in a day when these topics have been discussed and nobody knows is the answer..And thank you for your kind words :)

 

Pankaj

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Another self-righteous forum cop.

 

It was a valid point, regardless of whether or not you found it helpful.  Additionally, the whole "forum cop" moniker is really getting old.  It's about as useful (and mature) as the "I know you are, but what am I?" response.

 

PMDG gives information when they want to give information.  If it's not a sticky item, then there's no info on it.

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Off course the NGX Update is not ready yet they have been working on the 300ER and just released it.  PMDG will get around to it when they are ready!!!!

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The forum has been in terrible shape, especially yesterday and today.  Any of my attempts to use the search function yesterday failed (service unavailable), hence my post.

 

Since Tabs posted instructions for the update which included references to deleting older NGX paints, I was no longer sure if there was in fact going to be an NGX release at the same time as the 777 Sp1,

 

Sorry my maturity didn't measure up for you Kyle.  

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I believe way back in one of Robert's posts (don't quote me) he mentioned that once the 777 200/300 stuff was finished, they would take that technology and apply it to the NGX some time later.

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I'm sure that the new SP1 additions in the 777 are new idea's that they would like to incorporate into the NGX, however even though they have been beta tested, they still might serve up bugs. PMDG cannot possibly test for every eventuality on every systems. Even when the 777 was released, bugs crept through so I am sure they will be sitting back and seeing if anything needs to be changes. Once this is done and they are 100% everything works to PMDG standard, then no doubt they will look at installing them in the NGX, that is if they are not too busy with other projects. Then if they do, it will be months of testing, tweaking, testing, more tweaking and so on. I know that they already know how to do it, but they said that with the 777 after the NGX and look how long that took to code, not a small undertaking.

 

I very much doubt that any update will be this year, but that is just my opinion as I don't have the pleasure of working with PMDG.

 

P.S. I am not part of the Forum police, I am a forum criminal.

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Perhaps it won't be an update but a new version (as per the anticipated 747 V2) incorporating all the whistles and bells of the 777

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I doubt that we will have a 737 v2 instead of an update. Could you imagine the call to arms then with "I just bought the NGX and now I have to pay again."

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Perhaps it won't be an update but a new version (as per the anticipated 747 V2) incorporating all the whistles and bells of the 777

 

They aren't remaking the NGX. It will be a service pack.

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We'll see. Don't forget that the 737 was released 3 years ago and is therefore a relatively old piece of software.

And I can't see that it will make much commercial sense to PMDG to release free of charge an update that has taken a ton of resources to develop.

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We'll see. Don't forget that the 737 was released 3 years ago and is therefore a relatively old piece of software.

And I can't see that it will make much commercial sense to PMDG to release free of charge an update that has taken a ton of resources to develop.

 

It may be three years old, but the idea behind the technology (and why it took so long), was so that they could back-roll the new ideas / streamlined code into it. So come SP2, it will feel fresh and new just like the T7. When the 747V2 comes out, the NGX will probably be 4/5 years old, but will again, be back-dated to incorporate the new code.

 

I think PMDG made a very wise choice in making all their latest products backwards compatible.

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The PMDG 777 is based on the code designed for the NGX, so it may be a few years older but not out of date.

 

I think it was always the plan with PMDG to use the NGX as a base for the 777 and the 747v2, then update the NGX with new things as they want.

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Sorry my maturity didn't measure up for you Kyle.

 

I was just pointing out the lack of logic in the response.  It may not have been the answer you were looking for, but it was still an answer.  Calling that person a forum cop only serves to make you look childish, and inflame a situation unnecessarily.

 

The forum has been in a terrible state, absolutely, but Google is pretty solid:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1LAVE_enUS396&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site%3Aforum.avsim.net%20PMDG%20ngx%20sp2

 

^ Ten pages of stuff about SP2.  Sounds like there's quite a lot of info already out there.

 

 

We'll see. Don't forget that the 737 was released 3 years ago and is therefore a relatively old piece of software.

And I can't see that it will make much commercial sense to PMDG to release free of charge an update that has taken a ton of resources to develop.

 

Don't forget the guy who posted what he did is a Beta tester and probably knows a lot more about all of this than anyone in this thread...

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Kyle,

 

In a way, I agree with   

 


Another self-righteous forum cop.

 

there is no way, that people with over 1,000 posts got to the number of posts without asking the same question that has been asked before. 

 

There are way too many people posting on here that feel that they can FLAME anyone they want to and suffer no ill effects.

 

I thought that this FORUM was a place that people could ask questions....so what if they have been asked before....just maybe, someone else was wanting to ask the same question and gets an answer.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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First thing is it did not take me more than 1 page deep to find above threads on my mobile..second is multiple threads on same day asking the same question???third thing is as i mentioned in one thread there is not even a start date assigned forget the due date..this question just doesnot make sense even for next 3-4 months..if everybody starts a different thread each of its own we will have 200-300 threads on same day..as kyle says the forum can lose its posts deep down ..not Google..last if u see my post i post every few comments..have joined way back and been a mere spectator reading this forum and kearning from you all..but even being silent it really becomes tough to ignore commenting on recent trend in posts..how much ever i try to restrain..and at the end i m not a forum cop..just frustrated seeing the same questions over and over..being lazy,impatient ,1000 post deep etc etc is no excuse for using google..heck i found the post 15-20 deep..thsts it..and at the end sometimes u really need a cop because otherwise the entire world on road would start becoming chaotic..

Sometimes i feel Avsim should really charge 10 cents for every question on update that we ask..haha..just old sarcasm here..

And i dont think that my original reply was FLAMiNG the op..there was no personal comment being directed towards him.it was a mere information that it has already been discussed a lot before..a hint to use the search to get his reply..but unfortunately the text cannot get the tone across and people get agitated

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I thought that this FORUM was a place that people could ask questions....so what if they have been asked before....just maybe, someone else was wanting to ask the same question and gets an answer.

 

Sure, but this is the most basic, and unfounded point people make...way too often.

 

You're right in that this is a forum where people can ask questions.

 

That point fails to address a more important point, though:

If people are allowed to ask the same question over and over again, without fear of getting a little chiding for it, people will never do their own homework.  Time, though, is a limited resource, as is the space on page one of each forum.  If you let this go unchecked, then you have a whole bunch of people asking the same question over and over again.  The result is that people answering questions have less bandwidth to answer the question that haven't been asked before.  Additionally, those questions that are more worthy of a forum discussion could get dropped onto page two and beyond and never even seen.

 

Why?  All because people are too lazy to take a few minutes to check and see if it's been discussed before.

 

Yeah, to a certain degree, a forum is a place to come together to discuss things.

It's up to the members of the forum to drive how those discussions go, though.  Do we want to make this forum a repeat of an FAQ page?  ...or do we actually want to use the forum to capitalize on the knowledge that is in the user group?

 

I'd argue that the latter is more appropriate and useful.

 

 

 

If I had a chance to meet Albert Einstein, I wouldn't go up to him and ask him about his theory of relativity.  That's knowledge that's out there.  Instead, I'd make that time more useful and interesting by engaging him with questions that aren't as easily answered.

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Kyle, you raise some interesting points, a few of which I am not sold on.

 

You say that without chiding, people will not learn to do their homework. This assumes that chiding is either the only or the most effective way of encouraging people do 'their homework'. This is not my understanding of how the human mind works, particularly given the myriad emotional responses that result from being chided, a good few of which will actually produce results counter to what you wish to achieve. And that is before we touch on phenomena such as cognitive dissonance or confirmation bias, both of which are totally immune to chiding, and may in fact end up reinforcing the chided person's belief that what they did was right. Plenty of examples of that in the scientific literature.

 

The part about limited bandwidth is a more valid point because that is not subjective.

 

Calling people lazy because they didn't do a search on AVSIM or Google regarding a simulator hobby is going to be difficult to defend logically, given that you have no additional information about those persons available regarding how they approach other topics on which they need information. The chances that you are right about a person being lazy based on a single act on a hobby forum has, as with all other conclusions drawn from meagre samples, a very low statistical probability of being accurate.

 

Regarding whether we want to make this forum a place where the same topics are discussed over and over again, well, I think that again is a statement that can be called into question. Simply, take the number of repeat questions or subjects and divide that by the number of new or unique questions and subjects and that will give you an indication of how this forum is utilized. In my few years on here, the ratio is certainly more in favour of new or unique topics in higher numbers against repeat questions and topics. However, if you can provide me with numbers showing the opposite, I am not going to argue against it.

 

Even so, there are plenty of people who are willing to answer those questions again, and also people who answer the question for the first time. If we are to chide people for repeating questions that have been asked previously, what are we to make of people who are willing to answer those questions again without impatience or irritation? For as long as there are people who are willing to answer repeat questions, there will always be a good reason to ask something that has been asked before, which makes it essentially futile to try and chide people for doing something that will get a result. Unless we start chiding people for answering repeat questions as well.

 

And as for Albert Einstein, well, would you ask him a question based on what you think is something not easy to answer, or on what he thinks is not easy to answer? And if it is the latter, how exactly would you know what his standard is without being as knowledgeable about physics and as smart as he is?

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If people are allowed to ask the same question over and over again, without fear of getting a little chiding for it, people will never do their own homework. Time, though, is a limited resource, as is the space on page one of each forum. If you let this go unchecked, then you have a whole bunch of people asking the same question over and over again. The result is that people answering questions have less bandwidth to answer the question that haven't been asked before. Additionally, those questions that are more worthy of a forum discussion could get dropped onto page two and beyond and never even seen.

 

One person may have searched, but used the wrong parameters, so they ask a question that they did not see in the forum.  Not all people CHEAT on tests.  There a lot more people out there that will research a problem or project rather than ask a question for the simple reason, they will either get FLAMED by the TROLLS that have no clue as to what is going on.

 

Why do the people that are part of the testers, seem so touchy about people asking questions?  When I was teaching people how to work on aircraft in the USMC, I had to answer the same question multiple times, due to some people not being able to pickup on how something is done as fast as others.

 

There is no reason for members on this FORUM or other FORUMS to get nasty and disrespectful of other people, just because they can write anything the desire.

 

A lot of the people that are not in the cliche here get FLAMED because they are new and ask a question that has already been asked.  This not the way to help people.

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This thread is getting too heavy and deep. The basics are this;

 

The question has been asked many times and answered by people on this forum. There has been no official word from PMDG, however the fact that they have not said anything should be an indication that there is no news to tell, this is how it has been in the past and there is no reason to think that things have changed.

 

A simple search on either AVSIM or Google will help people with most questions to peoples answers, this save you having to retype the question, whatever it is, and save people answering the same questions over and over. This includes things like OOM, frame rates, liveries and updates.

 

This is a PMDG support forum, to me this means that it is there to help people who have problems with PMDG software. Yes it is used for announcements from PMDG, information from the beta team. It is not really for general chat, although we are all guilty of that, however asking the same questions over and over again, makes true support post disappear quicker.

 

It's not a case of forum police, but the fact that people get fed up with the same things over and over. People who give up their free time to try and help people, share knowledge and experience to answer questions for free. I think the title of this forum should be "It will be ready when it is ready", which is what is said by PMDG every time the mention something new. Keep asking does not make them work quicker, if it was me then I would slow down production just to make a point.

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This is a PMDG support forum, to me this means that it is there to help people who have problems with PMDG software. Yes it is used for announcements from PMDG, information from the beta team. It is not really for general chat, although we are all guilty of that, however asking the same questions over and over again, makes true support post disappear quicker.

 

Can true support not be provided in a repeat question? I have seen that done on numerous occasions. I have benefitted from that on numerous occasions as well, since I was brought to that repeat question through performing a search.

 

And if every topic can be found through the AVSIM search function or through Google, then how can any true support post really disappear, would they not still show up through a search as you advocate users to do? In which case, does it really matter, other than for reasons of bandwidth as Kyle mentioned, if people repeat a question or a topic?

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Calling people lazy because they didn't do a search on AVSIM or Google regarding a simulator hobby is going to be difficult to defend logically, given that you have no additional information about those persons available regarding how they approach other topics on which they need information. The chances that you are right about a person being lazy based on a single act on a hobby forum has, as with all other conclusions drawn from meagre samples, a very low statistical probability of being accurate.

 

Nice try at getting into statistics, but let's be real here...

 

Searching first requires work up front by the individual.

Not searching requires less work (at least in their minds).

 

People are usually pretty averse to expending energy (psych fact), and follow the path of least resistance.  The very fact that they didn't search is tacit proof of laziness in the situation.  Nowhere in my post did I mention that laziness could be extrapolated to other aspects of their lives, so I'm not sure where you were going with that point.

 

That's pretty logical.  It might not have statistical backing, but logic doesn't have to include statistics.

 

 

 


Regarding whether we want to make this forum a place where the same topics are discussed over and over again, well, I think that again is a statement that can be called into question. Simply, take the number of repeat questions or subjects and divide that by the number of new or unique questions and subjects and that will give you an indication of how this forum is utilized. In my few years on here, the ratio is certainly more in favour of new or unique topics in higher numbers against repeat questions and topics. However, if you can provide me with numbers showing the opposite, I am not going to argue against it.
 
Even so, there are plenty of people who are willing to answer those questions again, and also people who answer the question for the first time. If we are to chide people for repeating questions that have been asked previously, what are we to make of people who are willing to answer those questions again without impatience or irritation? For as long as there are people who are willing to answer repeat questions, there will always be a good reason to ask something that has been asked before, which makes it essentially futile to try and chide people for doing something that will get a result. Unless we start chiding people for answering repeat questions as well.

 

Other than being difficult, what are you trying to prove here?

 

You're essentially proving my point.  Notice that you're sending me off on a wild goose chase to track down the stats you want.  I made a statement.  If you'd like to prove me wrong on a statistical level, then by all means, do the work yourself.  The very fact that we're in this debate, though, is proof enough that it's an issue (otherwise I wouldn't be arguing about this for the 72nd* time).

 

There may be plenty of people to answer the question over and over and over and over again, but that doesn't mean that it's a worthwhile use of time (or forum space, for that matter).

 

I could very easily sit at a pool all day and soak up the sun.  Lifeguards get paid to do this.

I could also try a little harder and get paid more to do different work all day.  I get paid a lot more to do this.

 

It's not that people are willing to do it.  It's that it's a worthwhile use of time.  If we're all okay to sit here and play Tier 1 help desk (that's the Tier where you resolve stupid issues like "did you turn your monitor on?"), then hey, that's cool.  The problem is that there is a clear resistance to that (otherwise people wouldn't mention the search function).  Instead, these people seem to want to keep the forum for discussing things that actually need discussion.  In other words, they seem to want to use the forum to discuss things that are not easily answered with the tutorials, or a simple forum search.  More difficult support issues, and more educated discussions?  We should all be for that.

 

Instead, we just have a bunch of apologists to defend people's lack of initiative.

...because, regardless of whatever statistical "proof" you want to leverage, not reading the intro manual is selfish lack of initiative.  Plain and simple.  Nobody forced you to buy this plane, but it's okay for people to demand that other people should hand feed them information?  I'm not okay with that.

 

*Made up value

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A simple search on either AVSIM or Google will help people with most questions to peoples answers, this save you having to retype the question, whatever it is, and save people answering the same questions over and over. This includes things like OOM, frame rates, liveries and updates.

 

So this is not for everyone to ask a question, unless they have first searched the forums or googled for an answer? 

 

Then what is the purpose of having an support forum?

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