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Poncho

My Carenado PC12 vs. Flight 1 comparison

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I have both of these and have now done a couple back to back flight comparisons, and found the Flight 1 to be the better of the two for several reasons. 

 

Now I should state I have about a dozen Carenado aircraft in my hanger and have always liked them. I find them easy to operate and fly with good FPS. I'm not a RW pilot and I don't know these aircraft well enough to pick apart the little details in the Sim aircraft. I just like to get in and fly.

 

In my opinion the Carenado looks better as you would expect. However that being said the F1 certainly is not ugly, and I have no problems with it's graphics. I can't compare how they stack up systems wise because I simply don't use all the systems (most of my flying is by hand and VFR). I have my FSX locked in at 30 frames and can acheive that with the F1, however my Carenado is around 20 FPS, thats a big hit. Now my computer is 5-6 years old (yes a dinosaur) so I'm not knocking the Carenado for that. It might be perfectly fine on a modern machine, but certainly not on mine.

 

Another thing I like better about the F1 is the sounds both inside and outside the cockpit. To me Carenado's interior sounds like I have head phones on all the time, and the exterior sound almost has an echo (so to speak) as if it's running in a steel hanger. The F1 to me sounds better and more realistic. Living in Canada I have a real world RCMP PC-12 that flies over my house (I live near the airport).

 

I have read the night time lighting in the Carenado not correct. I did not fly it at night yet, but one of my complaints about many of my other Carenado aircraft is the inability to seperate the panel lights from the dome lights. They have not made fixes for this in these other planes, so I would not hold my breath they will fix it in this one. I have flown the F1 at night a few times and as far as I'm concerned, it works fine as you can run the dome and panel lights seperately.      

 

One last thing I like better about the F1 is that it has a 2D cockpit. I rarely ever use 2D cockpits and don't miss them in my other Carenado aircraft. However, I find I do use it in the F1 PC-12 during start up as I can have the dash panel, overhead console, and lower throttle controls all on my screen at the same time. It's a little more cumbersome starting the Carenado or the F1 from a 3D panel.  

 

Anyway most of you guys are better picking these plane apart than me, this is more of a comparison for the casual simmer without a state of the art computer. I have never returned a plane before, but if I could return the Carenado PC-12 somehow I would, but I don't even see contact info on their website?       

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Regarding performance... try turning off the Avidyne unit.

 

It does not contribute anything IMHO and does suck up computer cycles.. ^_^

 

I have actually disabled it permanently in the panel.cfg file..

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Anyway most of you guys are better picking these plane apart than me, this is more of a comparison for the casual simmer without a state of the art computer. I have never returned a plane before, but if I could return the Carenado PC-12 somehow I would, but I don't even see contact info on their website?       

 

You can go here 

 

https://carenado.zendesk.com/anonymous_requests/new

 

...and at least ask them to change it out...they've done that for me a couple of times without a complaint.  

 

In regards to the sounds, you could easily replace the Carenado sounds with the F1 versions.  If/when I get this airplane I'm planning to use the C208 sounds I have.  Lots of folks don't like the Carenado sounds lately.

 

In terms of lights...there's a real opportunity there. Lately, other aircraft makers are including dim-able lights (A2A, Milviz, Realair panel, Majestic).

 

Good flying...

 

Gregg

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Regarding performance... try turning off the Avidyne unit.

 

It does not contribute anything IMHO and does suck up computer cycles.. ^_^

 

I have actually disabled it permanently in the panel.cfg file..

 

In effort to get the best FPS I did have the Avidyne unit turned off, as well as the GPS, and also all the stuff in the Shift+6 window such as reflections etc. I looked in the panel.cfg like you mentioned, but I'm not sure what to change to disable it?  

You can go here 

 

https://carenado.zendesk.com/anonymous_requests/new

 

...and at least ask them to change it out...they've done that for me a couple of times without a complaint.  

 

In regards to the sounds, you could easily replace the Carenado sounds with the F1 versions.  If/when I get this airplane I'm planning to use the C208 sounds I have.  Lots of folks don't like the Carenado sounds lately.

 

In terms of lights...there's a real opportunity there. Lately, other aircraft makers are including dim-able lights (A2A, Milviz, Realair panel, Majestic).

 

Good flying...

 

Gregg

Thanks for the link, I might contact them, but will give this a little more of a chance. You bring up a good point Gregg as I have the Both R.A. Duke 60's and the Lancair, also have the A2A Cessna and Ckerokee, and I love the night lighting in them. It surprises me Carenado would even release a plane these days that has lighting issues, that should all be sorted out before release. 

 

BTW I have no complaints with FPS on any of these mentioned above, and I have not tweaked any of them.   

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In effort to get the best FPS I did have the Avidyne unit turned off, as well as the GPS, and also all the stuff in the Shift+6 window such as reflections etc. I looked in the panel.cfg like you mentioned, but I'm not sure what to change to disable it?

 

Hmmm.  Surprised.  With the Avidyne off, it's pretty basic.  Somebody posted some frame-friendly textures in another thread...maybe it has something to do with it.  The Turbine Duke is one of my heaviest in terms of frames (really like that plane) so I'm surprised this one's heavier.

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This plane has 4096 textures.. may be an issue on some systems..

 

re Avidyne disable:

 

[Vcockpit04]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=512,512
visible=0
pixel_size=512,512
texture=$Panel_4

//gauge00=EX500_PC12!EX500_config,       0,  0,   1,  1
//gauge01=EX500_PC12!EX500_3D,           0,  0, 513,409
//gauge02=EX500_PC12!EX500_Update,       0,  0,   1,  1
//gauge03=PC12CAR!ToggleCARG500,         0,  0, 513, 32

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Does the Avidyne come with a separate panel.cfg entry for the "wx" part? If so, disable that one too.

 

The gauge entry should look somehow similar to the one used on the B1900: gauge00=WX_Gauge_3D_xxxxxx!WXGauge (x being a placeholder) This makes sure that the weather module isn't even loaded. Maybe this helps with some fps. I don't have the plane yet.

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This plane has 4096 textures.. may be an issue on some systems..

 

re Avidyne disable:

 

[Vcockpit04]

Background_color=0,0,0

size_mm=512,512

visible=0

pixel_size=512,512

texture=$Panel_4

 

//gauge00=EX500_PC12!EX500_config,       0,  0,   1,  1

//gauge01=EX500_PC12!EX500_3D,           0,  0, 513,409

//gauge02=EX500_PC12!EX500_Update,       0,  0,   1,  1

//gauge03=PC12CAR!ToggleCARG500,         0,  0, 513, 32

I believe my panel cfg looks exactly like you have posted above. What exactly do I need to change? Sorry but I am not a tweaker, if there is such a word. LOL  

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I believe my panel cfg looks exactly like you have posted above. What exactly do I need to change? Sorry but I am not a tweaker, if there is such a word. LOL  

 

The double slash // means comment out that line, i.e.  it will not be executed.

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The double slash // means comment out that line, i.e.  it will not be executed.

Yep, you were right, that's what I missed. Thank you.  

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Regarding performance... try turning off the Avidyne unit.

 

It does not contribute anything IMHO and does suck up computer cycles.. ^_^

 

I have actually disabled it permanently in the panel.cfg file..

 

Agree, just another 'masked' GPS unit, so turn it off - makes quite a difference. :smile:

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I have read the night time lighting in the Carenado not correct. I did not fly it at night yet, but one of my complaints about many of my other Carenado aircraft is the inability to seperate the panel lights from the dome lights. They have not made fixes for this in these other planes, so I would not hold my breath they will fix it in this one. I have flown the F1 at night a few times and as far as I'm concerned, it works fine as you can run the dome and panel lights seperately.      

 

   

 

Dont hold your breath is right!!! I sent in this request (more like an error in my eyes) to Carenado and they responds with:

 

"They will consider it as a modification to a future patch"

 

This is BS!!!!!

 

Something so common sense as cockpit and cabin flood lights!!! Hell there is even separate switches for them. I don't understand why. My hope is someone will threaten them and they will fix it - or one of our in mad modders here at AVSIM can figure out a texture fix..

 

Fingers crossed....

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The are several different combinations of panel lighting in the PC-12. You don't have to use the dome unless you want to. All the lighting modes are independently controlled. Here's a quick demo image to show you the modes:

 

bTKqzAk.jpg

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To be honest, as unimpressed as I am with Carenado's shoddy, lazy approach to beta testing and de-bugging, and their lack of recognition to the people who make their products so much more real and enjoyable (Bert et al), I still think the core PC-12 product is fantastic, and far superior to Flight 1's 2007 product.

 

But with the Carenado, in my opinion, it's vital to do the following 'mod' top make it enjoyable.

 

1). Forget SP1. I just tried it and so many bugs were still in place.  Just install the base product.

2). Firstly, install Nick's (AtlanticFlyer) Engine and Gauge Mods, and install those.

3). Next Install Bert Pieke's significant Autopilot and Transponder Fixes.

4). Complete the 'Pitot Heat Mod' that I've detailed further up this thread (very easy).

5). In my opninion the aircraft flies far more realistically with the 'Pitch_Stability' and 'Roll_Stability' settings of the [Flight Tuning] section, set to   =2.0

 

= beautiful plane.   :smile:

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Forget SP1

 

Did it not fix anything?  I'd have thought it would have at least have addressed the GNS turning off.  Their SPs haven't seemed to fix much lately. 

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Did it not fix anything?  I'd have thought it would have at least have addressed the GNS turning off.  Their SPs haven't seemed to fix much lately. 

 

It did fix the GNS turning off issue Greg, and some other bits and bobs such as the Transponder fix, but I found the AP all over the place.    I know the vast majority of users will install the SP1 but I personally believe that with the user and some of my own mods, a better more realistic aircraft can be had, by running a mod'd version of the RTM release.

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It did fix the GNS turning off issue Greg, and some other bits and bobs such as the Transponder fix, but I found the AP all over the place. I know the vast majority of users will install the SP1 but I personally believe that with the user and some of my own mods, a better more realistic aircraft can be had, by running a mod'd version of the RTM release.

 

Ok.  It'd be nice to have their fixes too.

 

I have to admit that I started mucking about in the gauges folder today...just for grins or something.  I accidentally (not kidding...accidentally) unpacked one of the CAB files for a gauge and was astonished that it was an aggregation of bitmaps and XML.  I started delving into the XML, using LINDA to test a few things and, suddenly, all truths were revealed.  They actually coded their entire GNS 430 in XML.  My thought was the same thought I had when I was tasked to review and fix some code from another developer.  I spent a couple of hours surfing around his code.  I thought...it's brilliant!...it'll never work but it's brilliant! 

 

Woh.  They need a C/C++ coder badly.

 

But, it's good because I can finally fix some of those niggly things in the 350P.

 

Gregg

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Yes, it is surprising to find that all their gauge work is done purely in XML .... but on the positive side, it makes the gauges easily accessible for the likes of Bert, AtlanticFlyer (and now you!) to fix and improve them. :smile:

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Yes, it is surprising to find that all their gauge work is done purely in XML .... but on the positive side, it makes the gauges easily accessible for the likes of Bert, AtlanticFlyer (and now you!) to fix and improve them. :smile:

 

Gonna take me a good bit to get the RPN syntax figured out.  I already fixed one issue in the Mirage tho.  So, yeah....if all this stuff was compiled into DLLs there'd be no way to fix it. 

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It did fix the GNS turning off issue Greg, and some other bits and bobs such as the Transponder fix, but I found the AP all over the place.    I know the vast majority of users will install the SP1 but I personally believe that with the user and some of my own mods, a better more realistic aircraft can be had, by running a mod'd version of the RTM release.

 

 

OK so better off not installing the service pack?

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I already fixed one issue in the Mirage tho.

 

Ears perk up...  What did you fix in the Mirage, Gregg?

 

Scott

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Welllll....I'm working on a few things.  Not completely clear what is possible yet.  Learning the syntax of this code is pretty wow.  So far the only thing I've fixed was the annunciator panel so that you can check it without avionics on (astonishingly, it was a matter of removing part of a line of code).  Then I started tinkering with that digital transponder just to see what I could figure out.  I made the VFR button work so that when you click it it selects 1200 in both transponders (kinda nice to have).  Learned a lot on that little exercise.  I also made the Standby button work. 

 

Have any things on your mind that you want fixed?  I'll have a look.

 

BTW...I should say this.  All those folks that say that their GNS is nothing more than the FSX wrapped are wrong.  There's a lot of code in there.  I'm fairly amazed that they could do what they did in an XML gauge.

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Why do they spend so much time coding a GPS instead of using the default or reality-xp? They should fix all the small bugs in a service pack and have a finished complete product instead of a lineup of "could be a great airplane, but..."

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OK so better off not installing the service pack?

 

That's just my opinion Shousa, but it's up to the individual user to decide.    When the mods were applied to the base package, the plane was fantastic.   I then installed the SP1 and put the mods back in, and there were many problems.   

 

So personally, I would say ------->    

 

  • If you don't want to do any mods, then SP1 is the way to go.
  • If you're adding Berts, Nicks and my mods, then the original RTM version (with the mods) is far better.

 

.....but again, people take things literally here and start getting funny if some opinions conflict with their own! :smile:  .... so I'll add the disclaimer that people should just do what they think is best for them. 

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