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ryanbatcund

Hawker my first impressions

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I don't have a lot because I can't get the glass turned on (I've got the ESIS on though yay!)

 

The usual: amazing looking

Sounds are quite good, stick shaker sounds, gear thumps, runway sounds as you takeoff, ambient interior sounds I like too

Flying feels really lovely, slow flight is mushy as it should be, did a power off stall in dirty config, a little interesting effect, nose dropped a few degrees and then again some more... maybe an aircraft specific thing not sure.  Kinda does that and mushes to the ground with gear and flaps extended (love those hawker flaps... huge!)

 

I've tried two re installs each with "run as admin" when I run the .exe.  This in P3D 2.5.  Since there's no solid manual (there are the usual Carenado charts, avionics manual - pretty non detailed but at least there is something, normal checklists/emergency), anyway no real guidance on how to fly or operate the aircraft....  so maybe there's a switch I'm missing but all electrical is on afaik.

 

Here's a few pics just for fun (well fun is not the word I want, here;s $50 pics of the external mostly of a plane I can't fly without avionics)

 

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Untitled-4_1.jpg

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Ok I got the glass back with quick support from Carenado.  If you're having issues delete PROLINE21.cab from your gauges folder, reinstall as admin (right click the exe select run as admin)

 

More info later

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I wanted to be a believer.... but boy does this thing need work.

 

I'm usually good at figuring out planes but this thing needs BETTER MANUALS.   FLC doesn't work properly at all. You can be in both VS and FLC modes at once (or at least the labels overlap sigh).  

FLC mode blows through alt - should auto level at the alt selected, same with VS

In order to load STAR and approach AND transition must be set ahead of time.  This is wrong.  STAR should work without approach.  
On the plus side DTO works
But DTO won't show up on FMS (name of fix)
PRESET should work to change the nav source. but it won't.
Can't change zoom levels of map (the zoom buttons on the PF's side console are inop)
ALT knob is pretty finicky... ie clickspots are poor.  

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Ok... just going to point out that the 'side console' is called the Cursor Control Panel and is used for the IFIS system. The 'ZOOM' button is only functional when the IFIS system is displaying a chart on the MFD.

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This is very SAD news!!!! Oh well...

 

Now back to my trusty old Citation Mustang, ES Citation V2, and my Lioneart Lear 24B.

 

Thank you for your review.

 

Jose

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Ok... just going to point out that the 'side console' is called the Cursor Control Panel and is used for the IFIS system. The 'ZOOM' button is only functional when the IFIS system is displaying a chart on the MFD.

 

Proper terminology isn't my goal just yet...  just trying to find working buttons that I know work in other PL21 products.

 

But yes that's what it's called.

This is very SAD news!!!! Oh well...

 

Now back to my trusty old Citation Mustang, ES Citation V2, and my Lioneart Lear 24B.

 

Thank you for your review.

 

Jose

 

I really want to drive home the point that without proper literature it's difficult to learn how this thing works.  We have PMDG for tubes, we have A2A/Realair for GA, all include nice documents.  But I don't have a lot of bizjets and I just don't know my way around them yet.  Trying to do so though.

Ok, the preset changes do work...  good.

 

The IFIS map range can be changed with the knob below "GCS" on the DCP (the panel with three knobs in front of your seat on the glareshield)

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The autopilot is pretty scary when you first use it, though... :(

 

Not sure how much is user error, but VS and FLC do not work the way I might expect...

 

For that, the stick shaker seems to work and rescues the novice pilot who is about to get himself killed.. ^_^

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Agree Bert - neither mode uses ALTS iow you'll blow through the selected ALT.

 

And you notice the labeling overlap? After pressing FLC, you press VS (should disable FLC but instead it goes on top of VS value label)

 

The FMS is a mess

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Ok I got the glass back with quick support from Carenado. If you're having issues delete PROLINE21.cab from your gauges folder, reinstall as admin (right click the exe select run as admin)

Good work and info, Ryan.

 

 

 

The FMS is a mess

Lol. You mean like with the C550 'FMC addon' or worse? ISG mod recommended?

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I'm going to revise my statement about the FMS... well partially.  The SIDS/STARS input is not intuitive.  It is on the real one - I've pressed buttons (I know not quite the same a rw pilot) on the universal in the king air c90gti... which is similar.

 

Anyway It appears you have to select an approach with your STAR...  can anyone confirm this?

 

But it appears you CAN add airways!  This is good.  You can also go direct to fixes unlike the Citation C550.  You CAN declutter the MFD!!

 

There's still some annoyances with the plane in general.  No waypoint name on the PFD (it just says a number lol), no ALTS mode (in other words, using FLC or VS the autopilot will blow through the altitude selected - it should capture the selected alt and level off - maybe a Bert AP mod coming?)

 

I really want to say the FDE is solid.  Guys PLEASE check your weights before flying.  You can't just takeoff with full everything and expect a rocketship.  I'm getting really close numbers.  Note I did not test with ISA but I'm close here at FL280.  Charts for FL290 so I'm interpolating there plus I'm actually -2C ISA.  FF is a little high (and TAS a little low) but it could be a number of factors.  OPUS being one of them.  I know Bernt primarily designs his FDE's around ISA.

 

In essence, the plane is growing on me!

 

FL280.jpg[

 

Untitled-4_2.jpg

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And you notice the labeling overlap? After pressing FLC, you press VS (should disable FLC but instead it goes on top of VS value label)

 

 

 

Altogether the labeling on the PFD is incomplete and inconsistent..

 

Maybe, if you fly in FMS mode exclusively, it works OK..

 

However:

 

When AP is engaged, it should say "AP" at all times..

 

- Depending on the mode, it will say "YD", "AP", or nothing at all..

 

In VS mode, it sometimes indicates the selected VSI, sometimes not..

 

Just like the first iteration of the Citation, FD mode is close to non-functional.

 

I cannot make heads or tails of this  :unsure:

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...Just like the first iteration of the Citation, FD mode is close to non-functional.

 

I cannot make heads or tails of this  :unsure:

 

That's all I need to know at this point. :) Thanks Bert (and really great pictures, Ryan).

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has anyone had an experience where the aircraft didn't hold your selected altitude during the decent while in VNAV? I was flying an approach and the FMS had an altitude of 2000 for a particular waypoint. I selected 3000 on the autopilot and the aircraft should have held 3000 but it didn't.

 

 

Also, when using the landing lights, it has 3 settings, OFF. TAXI AND LANDING. I was wondering if anyone can confirm whether in the LANDING selection, the taxi light it turned off and only the wing landing lights work?

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I really want to drive home the point that without proper literature it's difficult to learn how this thing works.

Ryan, although this is specifically for the KA-350i's version of the PL-21 system, it should be helpful in coming to grips with what you want to know:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4eptxu89ujs025/King%20Air%20PL21%20w%20IFIS.pdf?dl=0

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hope someone can produce a really good cold and dark tutorial for this plane,i am having a hell of a time trying to figure out the systems to do a basic autoland,a great looking plane,

but horrible systems :-(

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hope someone can produce a really good cold and dark tutorial for this plane,i am having a hell of a time trying to figure out the systems to do a basic autoland,a great looking plane,

but horrible systems :-(

 

Same ... I made a new post about it in this sub forum....  I need a "how to start an H25B from cold and dark for Dummies" book

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Autoland?? There's no autoland in a Pro Line 21 is there???

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Ok... there is a PDF with the checklists. While it's not for 'dummies'... it does help.

 

However, fair warning... the battery has 4 minutes of power before total shutdown. Get the APU powering the aircraft, or you'll not make it through the checklist.

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I actually have that already :)

Ah well, maybe it will help someone else then.

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has anyone had an experience where the aircraft didn't hold your selected altitude during the decent while in VNAV? I was flying an approach and the FMS had an altitude of 2000 for a particular waypoint. I selected 3000 on the autopilot and the aircraft should have held 3000 but it didn't.

 

 

Also, when using the landing lights, it has 3 settings, OFF. TAXI AND LANDING. I was wondering if anyone can confirm whether in the LANDING selection, the taxi light it turned off and only the wing landing lights work?

 

Both the taxi and landing lights are turned on when the switch is set to LANDING.

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Both the taxi and landing lights are turned on when the switch is set to LANDING.

Well that's odd, because my taxi light goes out with the switch is set to LANDING

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