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Upgrading to P3D

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Hello all. First off, thank you for the excellent products! I have been enjoying both the NGX and 777 in FSX SE immensely. I am working on making the switch full time to P3D and one of the big things holding me back is having to repurchase both products, and the expansions, for well over another $200. Is there any possibility of "turning in" the FSX licenses for a discount towards upgrading to the P3D versions? I am experiencing buyers remorse at getting the versions I did, and would love to have everything in the better sim. What are my options here?

 

I know, and fully understand, that there are coding differences requiring more work to support both versions. But having to make this sizeable investment again is really hitting me hard. I am sure I am not the first to ask this question, and won't be the last. I know which version of the 744v2 I will be buying when it releases, but until then I'm stuck with the other 2 in the subpar sim. :(

 

Can anyone shed some light on this for me? I'll keep my fingers crossed for a reasonable resolution. Thanks for your time and assistance.

 

Matt Bernard

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Easy answer is there are no options at this point, except to pay full price. You already missed the discounted P3D licensing upgrades a while ago.

 

 

Sean Campbell

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holding me back is having to repurchase both products, and the expansions

Sean Campbell has listed option A and there is no option B.

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Hi Matt,

 

I am a regular long-haul B777-300ER pilot.

 

I took the plunge and moved from FSX to P3Dv2.5 Professional a few months ago. I can honestly say that I feel that it is a very good investment for my flight simulation future.

 

I have had few major problems, but conversion took a deal of planning the steps beforehand. I found that time spent in reading the posts of other migrators invaluable. It still took a lot of fiddling around to fully succeed, but I now feel that I have certainly made the right strategic step to P3D.

 

If you try to migrate. expect to have lots of questions, and to have the assistance of many before you from these message boards.

 

Good luck with your investigations and migrations!

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Well this is truly disappointing news. :( Perhaps one of the PMDG crew can chime in here and explain their reasonings behind this stance. Again, I love the products, but what reason is there behind not providing at least a discount if not making the licenses transferable, other than financial gain? Is it part of the licensing agreements with Boeing?

 

The other part I do not understand is the reasoning behind commanding a $50 price difference between FSX and P3D versions? What is different between the two versions? I am not trying to be snarky or hostile, just genuinely curious.

 

Matt Bernard

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The other part I do not understand is the reasoning behind commanding a $50 price difference between FSX and P3D versions? What is different between the two versions? I am not trying to be snarky or hostile, just genuinely curious.

 

I was going to selectively quote from a past post in order to tailor it a little more to your specific questions, but to avoid issues with context and to ensure that you get the full picture, I'll just link you to the post: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/461729-08feb15-p3d-pricing-policy-some-facts-on-this-issue/

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I was going to selectively quote from a past post in order to tailor it a little more to your specific questions, but to avoid issues with context and to ensure that you get the full picture, I'll just link you to the post: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/461729-08feb15-p3d-pricing-policy-some-facts-on-this-issue/

Kyle, Thank you for the quick response. Upon reading that post, I remembered seeing it in the past. And it makes sense, and is fair. On the other hand, what would be the harm in allowing those of us that own one version, and desire to upgrade to the new version, make this purchase at the initial discount price? I know I missed the boat on on the sale, but this would make the purchase a bit easier to manage. And it may lead to further sales for those in a similar situation.

 

At the time of the initial release, I was just getting back into the flight simulation hobby and was confused as to which sim platform was the better option. I purchased both FSX SE and P3D. I found FSX SE to more similar to what I remembered, and it was the more comfortable option. Now a few months later, with a lot more knowledge, I see that P3D is the way to go. At least for us more "advanced" users. I can't be the only one in the same situation. The release of FSX SE has brought many of us back into the fold, and this has to lead to more people exploring the options for a more satisfying experience. Your products are certainly what I have been looking for to meet this need. It seems that offering an upgrade path for those of us in my situation can only be beneficial to all involved.

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Kyle, Thank you for the quick response. Upon reading that post, I remembered seeing it in the past. And it makes sense, and is fair. On the other hand, what would be the harm in allowing those of us that own one version, and desire to upgrade to the new version, make this purchase at the initial discount price? I know I missed the boat on on the sale, but this would make the purchase a bit easier to manage. And it may lead to further sales for those in a similar situation. 
 
At the time of the initial release, I was just getting back into the flight simulation hobby and was confused as to which sim platform was the better option. I purchased both FSX SE and P3D. I found FSX SE to more similar to what I remembered, and it was the more comfortable option. Now a few months later, with a lot more knowledge, I see that P3D is the way to go. At least for us more "advanced" users. I can't be the only one in the same situation. The release of FSX SE has brought many of us back into the fold, and this has to lead to more people exploring the options for a more satisfying experience. Your products are certainly what I have been looking for to meet this need. It seems that offering an upgrade path for those of us in my situation can only be beneficial to all involved. 

 

While I understand your points, the promotional period has ended. FSX (FSX:SE) and P3D are separate platforms with separate intended purposes.

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I too think there should be a bundle price for both the fsx and p3d versions. It's the same product (including the manuals which will be a big part of the cost too) both identical ones sitting on my hdd..

 

To buy both in my opinion I think was unjust but we paid it because we didn't have a choice ;)

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I wonder if something can be done for existing customers, especially if Prepar3D goes over to 64GB at least most customers will leave there FSX version in the shelf.

 

While I understand your points, the promotional period has ended. FSX (FSX:SE) and P3D are separate platforms with separate intended purposes.

They are both flight simulators. I am pretty sure the FSX users are wanting to use the P3D version for private use only, not commercial.

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I wonder if something can be done for existing customers, especially if Prepar3D goes over to 64GB at least most customers will leave there FSX version in the shelf.

 

They are both flight simulators. I am pretty sure the FSX users are wanting to use the P3D version for private use only, not commercial.

 

There is always something that can be done. PMDG sets their own pricing policies, and there is no reason they cannot offer a discount to customers who already own one version, and would like to buy another. They simply choose not too, no matter what their reasoning. And this at its most basic level is disappointing as a consumer.

 

Matt Bernard

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There is always something that can be done. PMDG sets their own pricing policies, and there is no reason they cannot offer a discount to customers who already own one version, and would like to buy another. They simply choose not too, no matter what their reasoning. And this at its most basic level is disappointing as a consumer.

 

Matt Bernard

There was something done, as I mentioned in my first post, PMDG gave a discounted price for people who already owned the FSX version and wanted to purchase the license for the P3D version. It ran at a discount for a time frame for like a month or month and a half. So you can't say they didn't do something, because they did, but if you didn't take advantage of it, it's your fault not PMDG's.

 

 

Sean Campbell

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There was something done, as I mentioned in my first post, PMDG gave a discounted price for people who already owned the FSX version and wanted to purchase the license for the P3D version. It ran at a discount for a time frame for like a month or month and a half. So you can't say they didn't do something, because they did, but if you didn't take advantage of it, it's your fault not PMDG's.

 

 

Sean Campbell

 

I am not saying they won't, I am not criticising them. It's just I am surprised that there isn't something set-up if someone wishes to do so, P3D looks to be the future; PMDG would make themselves and there life's easier if they encourage people to go over to a more stable platform.  Hopefully a 64GB version of P3D is in future plans. That's the only time I will leave FSX is if a 64GB version of the sim comes into fruition.

 

Either way, they have been brilliant in updating the 777.

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Hi all,

 

Interesting topic... While im still using FSX at the moment and probably will stuck with it as long as it is possible, I do understand the point here, asking bundle deals (again) etc. That would obviously lower the bar for many simmers to move from FSX to P3D. However, I do understand PMDG point as well. They are running a business here and not a charity.

 

Like myself, im sure many simmers has spent many thousand dollars/euros for their high end PC´s, the sim and all the bell´s and whistles in it, so in that perspective, is it that big deal investing couple of hundred dollars for a "totally new" sim experience that you choose yourself to move to?

 

I dont want to sound harsh or rude, so I hope no one takes this as any kind of insult - just saying...

 

Cheers

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I have P3D but do not use it since the J41 is currently only for FSX. Once (if?) there is a P3D J41 I'll purchase it and say goodbye to FSX forever, to include all the money spent through the years on payware for FSX. I look at payware as entertainment value. That is, cost divided by number of hours flown = less then a soda per day and getting less by the day. Certainly less then a serious night out on the town! I understand PMDG's stance and as other have posted, will not criticize their business decisions and will continue to be a customer in the future. While it may be nice to trade one license in for a discount on another, not a show stopper.

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That is, cost divided by number of hours flown = less then a soda per day and getting less by the day. Certainly less then a serious night out on the town!

 

Spot on mate that's how I look at it. Last year I spent $2500 on rental DVD's (and fines). And most of them were rubbish anyhow. I can spend in one week the entire 777 purchase price on a few bottles of wine. One nice dinner at a restaurant is about 2x the price of the 777. Puts it in perspective right?

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I barely feel brave enough to chime in here but hey, here goes...

 

I have recently swapped years of FSX flying for a new P3D set up and now that I have it running sweetly, there is no doubt in my mind that it is a far better platform - one which will hopefully offer us an improvement and development path for years to come.

 

I own the 777200 & 300ER and the NGX and fully appreciate that they represent the epitome of detailed flight simulation on a home platform right now. They were fully worth the price I paid considering the sheer level of work which has obviously gone into them.

 

I only fly PMDG in P3D (and the same went for FSX) so the first thing I purchased after upgrading was the NGX. It cost me around £50. Despite keeping my ear close to the ground, their promotional offer for FSX users completely passed me by because other commitments kept me completely out of the loop for several months and I simply didn't know it was happening. That's OK - I didn't mind paying the full price for the NGX. I got a shock though when I calculated that to purchase the 777 & 300ER for P3D is going to cost me an additional £100 because it is considerably more expensive than the NGX.

 

I'll never use FSX again or the PMDG aircraft I purchased for it. I completely accept that PMDG have priced P3D products as they have as it is their prerogative and their business. They are unique though because I have been able to migrate the hundreds of pounds worth of other scenery/utilities etc for no additional cost - all of which were also created by businesses.

 

Despite not being able to take advantage of it, offering a discounted upgrade path was bang on but making it time limited (for existing FSX owners of the 777 & NGX) was disappointing and will deter me from purchasing a new 777 for the time being or at all - not because I can't afford it but because it feels a bit like I'm over a barrel, and that's only because I'd really like to own it in P3D! :-)

 

I would certainly like to see PMDG shift a little further into the middle ground with regard to offering an upgrade path - even if it is not as generous as the original offer. I am sure that the measure of good will and positive PR will more than cement future loyalty and pay for itself in the long run. It is after all a 'feel good' hobby!

 

I have read the debates and understand the reasoning, so don't attack me because I'm merely thinking out aloud, not complaining!

 

Best wishes,

 

Luke

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I barely feel brave enough to chime in here but hey, here goes...

 

I have recently swapped years of FSX flying for a new P3D set up and now that I have it running sweetly, there is no doubt in my mind that it is a far better platform - one which will hopefully offer us an improvement and development path for years to come.

 

I own the 777200 & 300ER and the NGX and fully appreciate that they represent the epitome of detailed flight simulation on a home platform right now. They were fully worth the price I paid considering the sheer level of work which has obviously gone into them.

 

I only fly PMDG in P3D (and the same went for FSX) so the first thing I purchased after upgrading was the NGX. It cost me around £50. Despite keeping my ear close to the ground, their promotional offer for FSX users completely passed me by because other commitments kept me completely out of the loop for several months and I simply didn't know it was happening. That's OK - I didn't mind paying the full price for the NGX. I got a shock though when I calculated that to purchase the 777 & 300ER for P3D is going to cost me an additional £100 because it is considerably more expensive than the NGX.

 

I'll never use FSX again or the PMDG aircraft I purchased for it. I completely accept that PMDG have priced P3D products as they have as it is their prerogative and their business. They are unique though because I have been able to migrate the hundreds of pounds worth of other scenery/utilities etc for no additional cost - all of which were also created by businesses.

 

Despite not being able to take advantage of it, offering a discounted upgrade path was bang on but making it time limited (for existing FSX owners of the 777 & NGX) was disappointing and will deter me from purchasing a new 777 for the time being or at all - not because I can't afford it but because it feels a bit like I'm over a barrel, and that's only because I'd really like to own it in P3D! :-)

 

I would certainly like to see PMDG shift a little further into the middle ground with regard to offering an upgrade path - even if it is not as generous as the original offer. I am sure that the measure of good will and positive PR will more than cement future loyalty and pay for itself in the long run. It is after all a 'feel good' hobby!

 

I have read the debates and understand the reasoning, so don't attack me because I'm merely thinking out aloud, not complaining!

 

Best wishes,

 

Luke

This represents exactly how I feel. I miss flying the NGX and T7, but my real life finances prevent me from repurchasing both products. Technically, I am still paying off the ones I already own on my credit card. Fortunately I have other aircraft that I enjoy, and others that I am actively testing, that take up the majority of my free time.

 

And yes, I can understand the cost of multiple nights out on the town versus the cost per hour to fly the aircraft, but for those of us who do not go out and party, go to dinner, etc, because of our personal financial situation this argument is somewhat invalid.

 

I have read Kyle's responses and explanations as to their reasoning behind their pricing structure, and that is their decision. That does not mean I have to like it. As I have said previously, I will vote with my wallet on this topic. As I am sure many others have. Weather or not they come to this forum and express that they are voting with their wallet is something that cannot be told. Which leads PMDG to have no idea as to how many potential sales they have lost due to their policy. But this does not seem to be a concern of staff at PMDG.

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Last year I spent $2500 on rental DVD's (and fines).

dude!

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dude!

 

I have Netflix now...

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I wonder if something can be done for existing customers, especially if Prepar3D goes over to 64GB at least most customers will leave there FSX version in the shelf.

 

 

 

PMDG has stated they will support a 64 bit P3D upgrade at no cost. Upgrades of P3d through 3.x will also be supported. Its a different platform. Contrary to what people say about it being the same product as FSX it isn't. We would all like things to be less expensive but we can't always get what we want

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I wouldn't mind so much if the 777 for P3D wasn't so much more expensive than for FSX. I can't see what the reason for that is...

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Which leads PMDG to have no idea as to how many potential sales they have lost due to their policy. But this does not seem to be a concern of staff at PMDG.

 

Watching sales statistics is a good enough proxy.

 

I wouldn't mind so much if the 777 for P3D wasn't so much more expensive than for FSX. I can't see what the reason for that is...

 

See here:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/461729-08feb15-p3d-pricing-policy-some-facts-on-this-issue/

 

Specifically this part:

When we announced development for P3D 18 months ago, we were very candid about the fact that our P3D products will be significantly more expensive than our FSX products.  This is true because we envision P3D as the home for our enterprise and professional products, in keeping with P3D's place in the enterprise market.  P3D is a growing, in-development platform that will be constantly changing and evolving to meet the needs of the professional simulation market.  With this in mind, it is thus not sufficient for PMDG to finish a product and simply toss it to the marketplace forever.  We will need to invest developer time and effort to continually adapt our P3D products to version changes, as well as adding new features as they come available in P3D.  This is a different approach than we use in FSX, and it is a different approach than is used by most other developers whose products are targeted to the entertainment market only.  Use of developer time is an opportunity cost, and we must carefully weigh the value of placing a developer on one project as opposed to another.  These are economic considerations that must be dealt with because we envision our P3D product line as a constantly evolving, growing, professional development environment.  P3D is a professional tool targeted to professional and academic users and our P3D business model moves us in that direction.

 

 

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I wouldn't mind so much if the 777 for P3D wasn't so much more expensive than for FSX. I can't see what the reason for that is...

 

As Kyle explains, you're playing in a different market.

 

(The following is a general comment not aimed specifically at you.)

 

This is one of the reasons why I have real concerns about the damage P3D has the potential to do to our hobby and why I refuse to get sucked in to buying it. It has filled a vacuum left because of the current lack of a successor to FSX, but it is not, and never has been, a replacement for FSX.

 

It is a professional simulator, being sold to commercial training organisations. If you want to play with commercial-level software, you're going to have to get used to paying commercial-level prices, I'm afraid, and that goes for developers other than PMDG as well.

 

It's not unusual outside of FS either: plenty of companies have different (often radically different) pricing structures for commercial vs non-commmercial use. P3D is by definition a commercial simulator: the EULA does not permit for personal entertainment use, so it's not unreasonable to price products accordingly.

 

Ultimately, if you don't want to pay the commercial prices involved in P3D, the solutions are to either go and buy X-Plane or wait for Dovetail to come out with the consumer-level sim they have under development.

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Just my little chirp....

Something to be aware of, & to remember, is that P3D is NOT an upgrade of anything else. It is a TOTALY new & separate simulation from a unique (separate) company & MUST be regarded as that. Yes, there are simularities!

 

We did not see people asking for discount with the DCP add-ons for FSX:SE or the guys that moved from FSX to X-Plane asking for discounts from Carenado, as they make add-ons for both!

 

BTW, did you ask Microsoft for a discount when & if upgrading from their Office editions or, in the past when upgrading operating systems? I think not, so why should anybody request discounts now?

 

As skelsey says.. " Ultimately, if you don't want to pay the commercial prices involved in P3D, the solutions are to either go and buy X-Plane or wait for Dovetail to come out with the consumer-level sim they have under development."

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