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JonRD463

Reinstalled X-Plane on Linux. Working addons?

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Hi all. I've decided to dip my toe back into simming, which usually happens after making a real world flight. Anyone else have that happen? You drop out for a bit, then get the fire re-lit after flying for real? Heh...

 

Anyway, since I was last active in simming, I've switched over to Linux Mint. Originally, it was so I could play 64 bit Kerbal Space Program with a ridiculous amount of addons, since it uses memory better than Windows. As a side effect, the last time I logged into Windows was to snag a free Win 10 upgrade, but Linux is now my default OS.

 

I was wondering if there were any addons that had a problem running in Linux. IIRC, anything that uses Gizmo from X-Aviation is pretty much a no-go, which is a shame since I already have a handful of their products. Any Linux users have any issues flying Flight Factor or JARDesign birds? Any other aircraft or sceneries that don't do so well in Linux?

 

Thanks, and I hope everyone had a great Holiday season and New Years!

 

-Jon

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Jon,

 

I'm afraid I can't be of any help, since I am in Win 10, but welcome, and, I just re-installed it as well :-) for testing the torque fix ...

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the flight factor planes require microsoft redist 2013 to function correctly, without it the menus don't work right, not sure about the jardesign

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Wow... since making this post, I've done some digging around on the net and found that not only is Linux pretty much ignored in the X-Plane community, some aspects of it are downright hostile. It's a pity since recent distros are very user friendly and practically plug and play. I'm using Mint 17.3 and it was an absolute breeze to set up. Stock X-Plane 10 runs so much better on it than in Windows, with all options maxxed out. I was eager to get some of the payware I'd previously bought into the sim to see how it performs, but no go. I knew X-Aviation didn't support it in their Gizmo DRM, but the attitude displayed by some of their personnel when the subject is broached is deplorable.

 

Guess my re-entry into simming has come to a halt for now. I can't go back to Windows. It'd be like having to fly domestic coach after experiencing a dozen international first class flights on Emirates or Singapore Air.

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Hi Jon,

 

If you go to the .org and look at the addons they sell, most are Linux compatible. Just browse to the requirement tab in the sales page of the products that interest you. Flightfactor, FlyJSim, Carenado, Peter's Aircraft, QPac and others all support Linux.

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Jon,

 

give a look to FlightGear latest nightly releases, going through 3.7... It's probably worth the try at least, and fully Linux compatible. Actually, mainly Linux by the dev team...

 

I think Austin tried hard to make the success of X-Plane 10 in the Linux community bigger than it got to be, but life is life ... :-/

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the flight factor planes require microsoft redist 2013 to function correctly, without it the menus don't work right, not sure about the jardesign

 

No they say that Linux is supported. I might get the A350 when it's cheaper, just forgot in the last sale. I've the CRJ-200 which is pretty good.

Very happy with Ubuntu, evenmore with the upcoming Steam games.

As for X-Plane.org I'm not aware of any planes not supporting Linux.

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Wow... since making this post, I've done some digging around on the net and found that not only is Linux pretty much ignored in the X-Plane community, some aspects of it are downright hostile. It's a pity since recent distros are very user friendly and practically plug and play. I'm using Mint 17.3 and it was an absolute breeze to set up. Stock X-Plane 10 runs so much better on it than in Windows, with all options maxxed out. I was eager to get some of the payware I'd previously bought into the sim to see how it performs, but no go. I knew X-Aviation didn't support it in their Gizmo DRM, but the attitude displayed by some of their personnel when the subject is broached is deplorable.

 

Guess my re-entry into simming has come to a halt for now. I can't go back to Windows. It'd be like having to fly domestic coach after experiencing a dozen international first class flights on Emirates or Singapore Air.

well it's a simple affair really:  the flightsim market is a niche, out this niche x-plane takes a niche compared to fsx/p3d. 

 

And now look at this chart laminar provided:

 

CVKBIy9UwAAPCD_.png

 

 

Out of the niche of the niche only 3% of the users actually play on linux. Since developing is already more a labor of love than a financially sound business, i think in future it will be even harder to get support for linux as the planes get more and more complex. Laminar will probably continue support for Linux to proove the multi platform point, but that was never a financial reason.

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I think this is super simple. Ben Russel is coding gizmo. He does not answer to anyone but himself. If you want him to support linux, you can try - but making him angry or getting on his nerves is certainly not the way to achieve the desired result.

 

Some X-Aviation products use gizmo. Those don´t support Linux. Get Windows, Mac, miss out or make Ben Russel an option he can´t refuse! Four options.

 

There is no law that requires a free enterprise to support every OS.

 

Jan

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I use Ubuntu for everything and multiboot other os only for recompiling my stuff. I don't care at all about one or two overprized addons to be to lazy to support Linux. Any good programmer will target crossplatform right from the beginning.

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Option A; work at a loss on Linux port.

 

Option B; enjoy time with my family.

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I'd have to agree with Ben, at 3% of the userbase (And how many of those users would actually purchase addons), it really isn't worth the time or effort to do a Linux port. I know this statement may annoy some people, but you have to think in terms of the support and time required to do so.

 

I have and use Linux for work, and I tried to get XP running, but I had so many issues with drivers and graphical glitches that I gave up. That being said, the vast majority of scenery (free and paid) and GA aircraft should work fine. I do know that Skymaxx Pro and the Saab don't work (Two of my favourite addons).

 

Sometimes even Mac OS users get left behind, e.g. We can't use the weather engines because they're Windows only. A lot of Mac users run XP10 because they have no choice, this is what originally got me using XP9.

 

Edit: Off-topic, I'm shocked that over 50% of users fly with the mouse ;-)

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Looks like the FF B767, apparently considered the most complex aircraft addon for X-Plane, works both in Win, Mac and Linux. So much for the "working at a loss" argument.

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So much for the "working at a loss" argument.

 

No offense, but if you think there's profit to be made on a segment of a 3% segment of the X-Plane market, you're ill informed and not qualified to make statements like this.

 

Flight Factor may well be developing for the platform (ever occur to you one of their programmers is a Linux user?), but it signifies NOTHING from a profitability standpoint.

 

Ben is very right. There is no market there. Laminar also concurs with this thought, but there's a very key person on the team using Linux, thus support continues. A case of "if he's happy, we're happy."

 

It's sad, really. The truth is we would love to support all three platforms (and have done so in the past). But, the support costs/time over the profit margins (or lack thereof) do not promote this tri-platform support.

 

Linux is a GREAT platform for development. A number of us use it, but in some things you have to face reality and separate personal wants vs business sense. Linux simply doesn't make viable business sense, and if we had to depend on Linux users to buy add-ons in the X-Plane platform, well...we'd be in deep s*&%.

 

Sucks, but that's reality. :(

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Any Linux users have any issues flying Flight Factor or JARDesign birds?

 

No problem with FlightFactor addons, they all works in Linux. JARD dont support Linux, but I got the A320 v2.3r4 to work, but not the A330. Others addon I know support and work well in Linux are the JRollon CRJ-200, Rotate MD-80 and addon from FlyJSim, Carenado.

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Let me know when the Linux user base crosses 30%+.

 

I'll be willing to re-open this discussion then and only then.

 

Good day.

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Okay, been flying around in the FF 757 for a bit. So far so good.

 

On the small userbase of Linux: I totally get that a small user base is not a priority. I myself am a new user to Linux, so up until recently, I didn't have an opinion one way or another about it. Now that I've crossed over, I can understand the passion this small userbase has for the OS. For a long time, Linux held its position as an OS for ubernerds (said affectionatly, of course) who were willing to tinker with obscure settings in a totally foreign command-line environment for enjoyment that the general computer using public at large could only nod half-heartedly say "Yeah... cool... okay..." before going back to the comfortable environs of a Windows or Mac desktop.

 

I was oblivious to it all. I never really had a desire to tinker with it, until I was chatting with some folks in the Kerbal Space Program community. That's a game that I've been heavily playing over the last year and a half or so, and like FS, it has a large, active, and lively addon community. The game is made with the Unity platform, and it begins to bulge at the seams when you add in a bunch of mods. It was suggested to me that the 64 bit Linux version was much more sturdy, used all available RAM, and ran more smoothly than the 32 bit Windows version. It was suggested to me to try the Mint distro when I expressed my concerns that Linux might mean a level of fiddling and tinkering that I wasn't ready to do. I tried it and not only was it absolutely painless to set up, I found that I kept using it for general tasks like web browsing, document writing, media watching, etc. I've got Windows set up for dual boot, but rarely use it.

 

I am by no means a Linux fanatic or super user (except when I have to SUDO something ;)). It just works, and I'm a happy camper.

 

Now enter X-Plane. I knew that it was supported on Linux, and the last time I was X-Planing in Windows, I'd modded the sim to the point that it was juuust on the side of playable with barely enough FPS to not kill the experience. I wondered if I would see the same performance increase in Linux that I saw with Kerbal. I installed, maxxed out just about all of the rendering settings, and found that stock game ran buttery smooth, looking practically identical to the view out my window on the recent flight I took that inspired me to reinstall X-Plane in the first place. I had a huge framerate overhead and wanted to start filling it with all the addons I'd previously purchased, like SkyMaxx Pro, the LES DC3, the Flight Factor and JARDesign birds, etc.

 

I started with SkyMaxx, since I wanted to get the simming environment set up before adding in new aircraft, and I'd been getting the emails about the upgrade. I went to X-Aviation and checked the forums for information regarding Linux compatibility. I'm the type of person who figures that any question I may have has probably already been asked before, so I do thorough searching before I resort to asking things myself. What I found blew my mind.

 

Now, Cameron and Ben, since you both have replied to this post, I'd like to address you directly. As I said, I understand that the Linux userbase is small and that for business reasons, you choose not to support it due to a poor ROI on time spent vs. income gained. Completely understandable. What I can't possibly fathom is how a relatively small company who relies on every sale to keep going would allow the kind of attitude I've seen on the forums. People are going to ask questions, and sometimes people can be annoying. Welcome to the world of customer service! I did my time in retail and if I ever displayed the sort of snark and disdain I've seen come from Ben to Linux users in my job at the time, I'd get disciplined so fast it wouldn't even begin to be funny.

 

It's extremely off-putting, so much so that as I consider whether or not to install X-Plane on my Windows partition to use those plugins, and addons that aren't Linux compatible, I will not factor any of my previous X-Aviation purchases into the decision making, nor will I make any future purchases of anything that uses Gizmo until you reign in the attitude. Many entertainment software companies that have a heavy online presence already know the wisdom of keeping those deficient in the way of interpersonal relations out of the public eye and letting those who are more adept handle the community stuff. Perhaps you, Cameron, should assume the role of spokesperson and let Ben happily code offline. You know, when I was last active in simming, one of the more ubiquitous things in the X-Plane community-- including the one at X-Pilot-- was the commiserating about the nastiness of some of the moderators at the .Org. I honestly cannot tell the difference between some of the more nasty posts they've made over the years and some of the spew coming out of Ben with regard to Linux support for Gizmo.

 

To everyone else who has replied, I thank you for your suggestions, tips, and advice. I'm slowly working my way towards getting things set up. The 757 is working great. I'm now starting the process of getting W2XP sceneries and the HD mesh installed. It looks like I'll have a fairly good running build in due time.

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Let me know when the Linux user base crosses 30%+.

 

I'll be willing to re-open this discussion then and only then.

 

Good day.

My, you're getting awful close to cancelling Mac support.

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Let me know when the Linux user base crosses 30%+.

 

I'll be willing to re-open this discussion then and only then.

 

Good day.

[deleted] Not worth it.

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My, you're getting awful close to cancelling Mac support.

 

And awfully far from supporting Linux.  :wink:

 

Now, Cameron and Ben, since you both have replied to this post, I'd like to address you directly. As I said, I understand that the Linux userbase is small and that for business reasons, you choose not to support it due to a poor ROI on time spent vs. income gained. Completely understandable. What I can't possibly fathom is how a relatively small company who relies on every sale to keep going would allow the kind of attitude I've seen on the forums. People are going to ask questions, and sometimes people can be annoying. Welcome to the world of customer service! I did my time in retail and if I ever displayed the sort of snark and disdain I've seen come from Ben to Linux users in my job at the time, I'd get disciplined so fast it wouldn't even begin to be funny.

 

Jon,

 

I think I was pretty darned fair in my one and only reply in this thread. Linux becomes a heated discussion out of frustration, both for Ben and I (and many other devs for that matter). I get that people are passionate about their choices and platforms. It's the attitude some of these folks have had over the years that has ultimately built up to a defensive comeback from folks like Ben and even myself. If you really care to understand this better, I think Tom Kyler explains it perfectly well here (sorry for the link to X-Pilot, Tony, but I find it prudent and relevant for this discussion).

 

 

 

Perhaps you, Cameron, should assume the role of spokesperson and let Ben happily code offline.

 

I think you don't understand the relationship between Ben and X-Aviation. He does not work "for me", and has his own company under the banner of X-Plugins. Technically, developers are customers of him. He creates an extremely powerful platform which is consistently maintained and has allowed developers like IXEG to do things we have not yet seen in X-Plane (but soon will).

 

You may not agree with Ben's brash approach, but he is right in many ways. I can sympathize with his frustrations as someone who's been in the payware market as long as we both have. Sometimes customers just don't see what we do. Linux is one of those instances. This topic hasn't always been hostile, but it's certainly evolved that way. If only you could see all the poo flinging we receive behind the scenes from various Linux users, maybe then would you begin to truly understand. There have been some truly comical yet horrendous words received by a number of these users.

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And awfully far from supporting Linux.  :wink:

 

 

Jon,

 

I think I was pretty darned fair in my one and only reply in this thread. Linux becomes a heated discussion out of frustration, both for Ben and I (and many other devs for that matter). I get that people are passionate about their choices and platforms. It's the attitude some of these folks have had over the years that has ultimately built up to a defensive comeback from folks like Ben and even myself. If you really care to understand this better, I think Tom Kyler explains it perfectly well here (sorry for the link to X-Pilot, Tony, but I find it prudent and relevant for this discussion).

 

 

 

 

I think you don't understand the relationship between Ben and X-Aviation. He does not work "for me", and has his own company under the banner of X-Plugins. Technically, developers are customers of him. He creates an extremely powerful platform which is consistently maintained and has allowed developers like IXEG to do things we have not yet seen in X-Plane (but soon will).

 

You may not agree with Ben's brash approach, but he is right in many ways. I can sympathize with his frustrations as someone who's been in the payware market as long as we both have. Sometimes customers just don't see what we do. Linux is one of those instances. This topic hasn't always been hostile, but it's certainly evolved that way. If only you could see all the poo flinging we receive behind the scenes from various Linux users, maybe then would you begin to truly understand. There have been some truly comical yet horrendous words received by a number of these users.

 

Cameron, I appreciate your reply. Like I said before, I understand the reasons for not supporting Linux, and it's certainly not my intention to demand it where it makes little sense. I also understand that people online can be nasty, given the relative anonymity and zero chance of getting their teeth knocked out for the kinds of garbage that's said.

 

My main point is about representation and perception. You say Ben Russell isn't an employee of X-Aviation, but given that Gizmo is the plugin of choice for managing X-Aviation products, one could easily assume everything is part and parcel. Unless and until X-Aviation products utilize a different plugin to manage DRM, I can't see myself doing anything to enrich someone who cannot handle the pressure of a demanding userbase without coming across as a thin skinned jackass.

 

As long as X-Plane supports Linux, there are going to be those asking for support. Few as they are, and as nasty as they may get, just state your case for not supporting and leave it at that. Ignore the vitriol, and for heaven's sake, don't contribute to it. It just makes makes you look bad. I use "you" here in general terms for anyone in this position, and not pointedly at you, Cameron.

 

The bottom line is, X-Aviation doesn't support Linux for their products for valid business reasons. Understood, loud and clear, and there will be no whining from me about that fact. Just keep in mind that many folks' perception is their reality, and if it's perceived that a representative of X-Aviation deals with a volatile public by echoing their own vitriol, X-Aviation as a whole can be perceived as vitriolic.

 

That's all I have to say on that particular subject.

 

As for the subject of the thread at large, I'm reeaally enjoying the performance I'm getting after installing a number of sceneries and aircraft. The general graphical quality looks even better than my previous Windows install on the same hardware. It's crisp, and the depth perception really pops. Love it!

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one could easily assume everything is part and parcel.

 

One may assume, but my response is merely an attempt to clear the air and bring you "on page". That said, if someone wants to associate Gizmo to XA, that's fair and acceptable. In the end I don't mind so long as you understand the underlying "web."

 

 

 

I can't see myself doing anything to enrich someone who cannot handle the pressure of a demanding userbase without coming across as a thin skinned jackass.

 

Many people didn't like Steve Jobs either. Notoriously a jackass (even to customers in e-mails). Oh well. You can't please everybody. He knew that, I know that, and I'm sure you know that. Your personality and way of handling things is simply different. As you've said, perception is reality, and that applies even to you.  :wink:

 

 

 

Just keep in mind that many folks' perception is their reality, and if it's perceived that a representative of X-Aviation deals with a volatile public by echoing their own vitriol, X-Aviation as a whole can be perceived as vitriolic.

 

My response to this is the same as above. In the end, the products will do the talking. What you want to debate in-between it all is of little concern to me. I'll respond, and that's all there is to it. I do appreciate you coming in here to give your $0.02 of business sense though. We won't always agree, and that's quite alright!

 

 

Unless and until X-Aviation products utilize a different plugin to manage DRM, I can't see myself doing anything to enrich someone who cannot handle the pressure of a demanding userbase without coming across as a thin skinned jackass.

 

Just so we're very clear, Gizmo (Ben's product), is much more than DRM. I may be Ben's customer for that segment, but many developers (including IXEG and Leading Edge Simulations) depend on Ben's product to create the entire add-on(s) they are working on. Systems, screens, everything. It is NOT a DRM utility in any way, shape or form. Such functionality has been added to it, but it is far from the purpose. Thus, again, Ben does not work "for me".

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For the record; the number of users now actively complaining that Linux support has been dropped is now three. Three people.

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Any good programmer will target crossplatform right from the beginning.

 

Do you really want to go there, Mike?

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For the record; the number of users now actively complaining that Linux support has been dropped is now three. Three people.

 

Okay?

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