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ricka47

3.1 Waves Too Big for Floatplanes with Ultra Setting

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I noted today that, if I have the water set to Ultra, a float plane bounces around so much that my passengers lose their lunches within seconds.  But, If I back that down a notch, it's OK and I have much less clean up of the cabin.  Has anyone else observed that?  Thanks, Rick

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I noted today that, if I have the water set to Ultra, a float plane bounces around so much that my passengers lose their lunches within seconds.  But, If I back that down a notch, it's OK and I have much less clean up of the cabin.  Has anyone else observed that?  Thanks, Rick

 

You try and land a float plane in real life in rough water, you can pretty much guarantee a wrecked aircraft. 

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Right - but I note that this happens even when I start a flight in the water even on an inland lake with no wind.

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This came up a couple days ago, it's an issue with P3Dv3.1.... on Ultra the new gorgeous looking waves are simply out of control!  I can't land anything on them no matter the setting, others mentioned that dropping down from Ultra solved the problem.  I haven't had time to try it myself yet.

 

Like you said, even on calm bays or inland water it's impossible.  Hopefully it will be fixed.

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I cannot wait to get my new PC to try them, they look great!

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mentioned that dropping down from Ultra solved the problem.

 

Yes, for some amphibian or float aircrafts, water must be set at "high" or "medium". Personally, I like the representation of water with "medium". That setting avoids bouncing of the affected aircrafts.

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Great - thanks for the information everyone, Rick

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It's an annoying bug (a bit like the one in my signature! ;-) because AFAIK wave animations are displayed with Ultra settings only.

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Yeah so is there a fix for this?  If I set less than ultra I lose my 3d waves.

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This was brought to LM's attention during Beta v3.1 and "I thought" it was addressed ... wasn't something I had time to test but I believe someone else did test.  The issue is a side effect of 3D waves (Ultra) having the ability to impart physics on ships (bobbing up/down) ... I think (but can't confirm) there was a way to adjust but don't recall what that way was, sorry.

 

Using the non-compliant Twin Otter with ASN and my wave changes, it does jitter a little, but I didn't have any issues taking off ... I had issues landing from spot view using my keyboard ;) ... but otherwise seems ok.

 

RAW video I made:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUjMNwpkIjQ

 

But as pointed out, I don't think you want to be landing or taking off a seaplane in anything above 10 Kts surface winds.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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But as pointed out, I don't think you want to be landing or taking off a seaplane in anything above 10 Kts surface winds.

 

That's very frustrating because the wind level itself is not an issue at all for a seaplane and in those situations we real life seaplane pilots simply utilize inland waterways or lakes.

 

It's a big hole in the P3D simulation right now

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@Rob Your water is like smooth as glass though

I'm not seaplane endorsed but I'm pretty sure a twin otter could handle much bigger waves than 10 kt winds

Here we go link
http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/seaplanes/weather_conditions.htm

Winds 19-24 mph would be rough water for small craft

 

Here's a quick vid from me - freeware mallard (recently released at SoH - where do I get a compliant floatplane) with Ultra water and 8kt winds no weather gen... just default custom weather...  

 

Slightly bouncy huh lol?

 

https://youtu.be/BGV9cwH7P6A

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That's very frustrating because the wind level itself is not an issue at all for a seaplane

 

True, waves and surface wind don't always go hand in hand.  Not sure what you mean by big hole?  P3D reduces wave heights on inland water vs. major water bodies (oceans).  I took off from a inland water body so smaller waves ...   

 

 

 

 

 

This is probably the worse conditions I could find

 

If they do take off in worse conditions, then I guess I haven't found a real world video ... I did search ... most seem to takeoff and land is pretty good conditions.  But per your link ... 8-12 mph (I think they mean knots) seems to be the preferred threshold.

 

But like I said, don't know if there is something in the SDK for aircraft model to adjust or if it's something hard coded.  But it's certainly not "impossible" to take-off.

 

With that said, I'd love to see a ground up development of a seaplane for P3D V3.x not a "converted" ... but I heard a rumor Aerosoft might re-work the Otter for P3D V3.x ... not sure if that rumor is still alive or not, haven't seen the CRJ yet ... maybe in another 5 years ... doooh!  hehe 

 

Cheers, Rob.

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But like I said, don't know if there is something in the SDK for aircraft model to adjust or if it's something hard coded.  But it's certainly not "impossible" to take-off.

 

 

I guess it could be a model thing... but takeoff is seriously unrealistic and nearly impossible... and for me that's at 8 kt seas in a large amphib (grumman mallard)

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http://www.peardrop.co.uk/beaufort.htm

 

First of all, in RL I have never flown any kind of floatplane and my experience is limited to being a passenger in a Huey with floats. A sustained 8kt wind is hypothetically going to give you almost 3 foot swells and that seems a little challenging for a floatplane. I'm also wondering here about the P3d bathymetry setting (one of the more mysterious aspects of the sim). I've read a wide range of opinions on how bathymetry affects wave height in the sim and I am still not convinced what the actual relationship is.

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True, waves and surface wind don't always go hand in hand. Not sure what you mean by big hole? P3D reduces wave heights on inland water vs. major water bodies (oceans). I took off from a inland water body so smaller waves ...

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIpVw-97mKo

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJCt0UAzBTI

 

This is probably the worse conditions I could find

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X-5YEgsQhw

 

If they do take off in worse conditions, then I guess I haven't found a real world video ... I did search ... most seem to takeoff and land is pretty good conditions. But per your link ... 8-12 mph (I think they mean knots) seems to be the preferred threshold.

 

But like I said, don't know if there is something in the SDK for aircraft model to adjust or if it's something hard coded. But it's certainly not "impossible" to take-off.

 

With that said, I'd love to see a ground up development of a seaplane for P3D V3.x not a "converted" ... but I heard a rumor Aerosoft might re-work the Otter for P3D V3.x ... not sure if that rumor is still alive or not, haven't seen the CRJ yet ... maybe in another 5 years ... doooh! hehe

 

Cheers, Rob.

Appreciate all the legwork there.

Didn't realize P3D does lessen the inland waves.

 

In terms of examples...I am actually a real life seaplane pilot and inland and in lakes we *absolutely* operate in up to 20kt winds.

 

The water stuff is a tough model. Is P3D modeling wind shadows on water that are behind land masses?

 

In the PNW you get some really interesting situations of high winds with basically no waves (or very little) due to the large mountains coming right out of the water. Tough one for P3D...no question.

 

Seaplane operations vary widely by region, terrain and water body types and equipment. Inland 20kts vs Caribbean 20kts (or any ocean ocean scenario) obviously vary extremely.

 

Agreed. It would be excellent to see a legit seaplane developed.

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Just looking through some of those videos and around the web....

 

I need to get a GoPro...I had no idea how much hairy stuff I've encountered in seaplanes that apparently nobody has put on YouTube yet!  :-)

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The water stuff is a tough model. Is P3D modeling wind shadows on water that are behind land masses?

 

No -- but I believe this can be done to some degree - it would be an expansion of how thermals are implement around mountain regions -- however you are going to need a high degree of accuracy (read, performance penalty).

 

As for water, P3D does use Bathymetry data (SDK defines the global locations the data it's available for - surprised 3rd party haven't picked on this and extended it to entire globe) to influence wave height and I recently found out that Bathymetry data is always used regardless of whether or not one checks the box in the Graphics settings ... that box is primarily to just enable the underwater visuals, use of Bathymetry data is always enabled.

 

There are some things in regards to currents, river flow, etc. that might get implemented in the future but I can't discuss that.

 

Yes, get a GoPro and record some flights, I'd watch it ... I soak up stuff like this:

 

 

Cheers, Rob.

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There are some things in regards to currents, river flow, etc. that might get implemented in the future but I can't discuss that.

Rob thats all sounds awesome but you are an awful tease! :P

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Some may call me crazy...I prefer it set to none with all reflections enabled :)

 

king.jpg

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Hi folks,

 

Found on LM forum:

 

Add this statement to the [Contact Points] section of the aircraft.cfg

always_use_avg_surface=1

 

And it works like a charm ! :wink:

Thanks to the OP goes here:

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=116746

Thanks for the tip, but having mixed results with this. Been playing with avg_sfr on and off with the Twin Otter Extended.

 

On it definitely solves the bouncing, but seems to almost negate the waves entirely with major water clipping. Seems to essentially mush entire plane through water/waves.

 

Off its the bouncy/twitching described in this thread.

 

Not the silver bullet I was hoping for. Maybe the entire contact points settings all need to be tweaked?

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In terms of examples...I am actually a real life seaplane pilot and inland and in lakes we *absolutely* operate in up to 20kt winds.

 

Then, as you know, due to the limited fetch of most inland lakes and ponds, wave heights are vastly reduced when compared to marine waters.

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Then, as you know, due to the limited fetch of most inland lakes and ponds, wave heights are vastly reduced when compared to marine waters.

Of course. What's your point?

 

The hope for more detail in that type of modeling was talked about above in this thread. See the part about wind shadows and the modeling challenges, etc. applies to ocean, inland, rivers, lakes... everywhere.

 

Big part of seaplane flying.

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