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TheBoom

4770K to 6700K?

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Hi all,

 

Need a few opinions or better yet first hand experiences on the above. I know its pointless in all other regards, but I want to know, specifically with P3D in mind, would it be beneficial at all?

 

The upgrade would cost me somewhere between 300-400 USD if I settle for the lower end of DDR4 and I wouldn't wanna spend that much money on 3 or 4 frames more.

 

Current setup is 4770k with 2400mhz CL 11 rams. Upgrade would be 6700k with probably 2600mhz.

 

Clock for clock performance seems to be almost the same or marginally better but the prospect of achieving higher clock speeds seems tempting. My current CPU is running at 4.2ghz and I cannot go higher due to temperature considerations.

 

Any input would be appreciated.

 

Regards,

Shanan

 

 

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I would ask this in the Hardware forum if I were you.

 

My guess is that it would not be worth the money..

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@Bert

 

My apologies did not realize there was a separate forum

 

@Ron

 

Did you have to delid it? More specifically what is your average fps with all the addons and complex aircraft?

 

Also what rams do you have?

 

Thanks in advance.

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No I did not delid it.

Ram is 3200mhz DDR4 G Skill I think I'm running it s 2933mhz...have to mess around with the Ram a bit more.

So I was on approach to KLAX (FSDT) this evening in pretty bad WX, in the NGX VC, w/FS2Crew ASN, ORBX Vector/Global + REX Soft Clouds I cant easily get 35+FPS with about 70 AI Aircraft (use AI Manager). 

When I sit at the gate C33 in LAX I can get about 45FPS pretty easily. 

 

You'll be blown away by this chip. Esepceially if you fly "heavies" in and out of massaive Airports. 

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@Shanan

 

Going from a 4770K to a 6700K looks like an expensive move for a few more FPS, while the 4770K overclocked still appears to be a solid CPU. I'd advise holding onto your CPU and RAM for a little longer, and purchasing a better CPU cooler. You mentioned that you couldn't overclock much because of your CPU temperatures, so I'm thinking that you might be able to get a higher CPU overclock with a better cooler.

 

If the CPU cooler helps you with achieving a higher overclock then you saved yourself a lot of money. If it doesn't change anything you can still take advantage of the new CPU cooler that you bought in your 6700K build. :) I'd look at Corsair's all-in-one water cooling solutions like a H80i or a H100i, or look at Noctua's line of coolers that are also very good for overclocking.

 

Like Bert suggested you could read and post to the Hardware forum to get more advice. The way I'm seeing things is that the 6700K is good, but doesn't yet a significant advantage over a 4770K or 4790K.

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I went from an i2600k to a i6700k without changing the graphics card. It goes something like this for processing power:

Raw overclock gain = 4.7/4.2 = 12%

Design level CPU improvements = 10%

DD4 RAM overclocked to 3200 = 10% (EDIT possibly higher)

Motherboard level improvements = 2-5%

 

12+10+10+2 = roughly 33% gain

 

FPS of i2600k = 24fps<br />

FPS of i6700k = 24*133% = 32fps (EDIT: conservative guesstimate)

 

Conclusion:

In low fps scenarios going from 24 to 32 can mean a lot if you are a flight sim enthusiast because in FSX:SE you can lock to 1/2 VSYNC and get it really smooth and in P3D you get it a bit smoother although the gain is less than FSX without the 1/2 VSYNC lock (P3D cannot be trusted to maintain a genuine lock at 1/2 VSYNC). I also found that the i6700k hyper threads better and can handle more load from addons because of that. However, if you are just a casual simmer the difference is not worth it.

 

I saw the 33% increase in FPS with my own eyes in the cold light of day. EDIT: I do think the improvements in hyper threading have smoothed out the CPU throughput somewhat as well.

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@Ron

 

Thanks for that. Certainly seems better than what I'm getting and I have most settings either at medium or low.

 

@Niyoko

 

Unfortunately my problem lies with the CPU itself. It's a lousy quality job from a certain SEA country. I have a solid custom water cooling setup but without delidding the cpu there's no difference. I don't want to delid as its troublesome and will void the warranty

 

@glider

 

That's interesting. How do you think the i2600k compares to the i4700k?

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@TheBoom

Don't know if it can be trusted but:

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-4770K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-2600K

 

Generally the rule is to not upgrade one generation away and wait at least two generations between upgrades. CPU improvements are coming at a slower rate these days. Small upgrades to the CPU really only matter if you are running FSX and need to get the FPS above 1/2 VSYNC and keep it there. In P3D that threshold doesn't matter but the next critical threshold might be if you need to get the FPS above 40 to ensure G-SYNC works.

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The price for an OEM chip should be virtually the same now. I also doubt you will be able to pickup a 4770k anymore? The big distributors (they sell it the cheapest) certainly don't stock it in my area.

 

If you aren't bothered about a more expensive latest generation from Intel probably due this year then a 6700k is the way to go.

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The 4770k and 6700k are exactly 2 generations away if I'm not wrong. But I usually wait at least 3 before making the jump. My previous chip was a Q6600. One good thing though is that if I sell now I wouldn't lose as much as I would next year.

 

According to that article on CPUBOSS the 2600k is quite behind the 4770k so I guess I won't be seeing the same performance boost as you did.

 

@G Midy

 

I think you misunderstood my post. I have a 4770k now. I meant upgrading it to a 6700k.

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@TheBoom

 

Since the gains are always going to be modest (for me 33% or so for you may be 25% or so), you don't want to be spending all that money and effort without a plan. There are three critical thresholds in flightsim right now:

 

1/2-VSYNC (FSX),

VSYNC (FSX P3D),

G-SYNC(FSX P3D).

 

What monitor do you have? If you have a 60Hz VSYNC monitor then 25% is not going to do much for you because you won't hit 60fps regularly anyway. You will get reasonable smoothness in P3D but it will always be slightly shaky without a proper lock. A properly tuned 30FPS system that can be achieved either with 1/2VSYNC in FSX or VSYNC in P3D on a 30Hz monitor. 30FPS is very smooth. I didn't believe it until I managed to achieve it and see it for myself. 30FPS properly locked is smooth even in tight turns (I fly gliders) and has little input lag for flight sim purposes if you set it up right and get the system balanced.

 

If the CPU helps you to achieve those milestones FPS numbers then it is worth it. If you are just paying money to boost FPS by 25% - it is not. The sliders in the simulator settings may not always be able to give you the necessary boost. Sometimes you do have to go down the new hardware route.

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Conclusion:

In low fps scenarios going from 24 to 32 can mean a lot if you are a flight sim enthusiast because in FSX:SE you can lock to 1/2 VSYNC and get it really smooth and in P3D you get it a bit smoother although the gain is less than FSX without the 1/2 VSYNC lock (P3D cannot be trusted to maintain a genuine lock at 1/2 VSYNC). I also found that the i6700k hyper threads better and can handle more load from addons because of that. However, if you are just a casual simmer the difference is not worth it.

 

I saw the 33% increase in FPS with my own eyes in the cold light of day. EDIT: I do think the improvements in hyper threading have smoothed out the CPU throughput somewhat as well.

Thanks, really helpful. I am running an i7-2600 (3.4GHz) right now. I only fly GA and am actually still content with the chip (on an Intel board +  SSDs + an EVGA 970). Thought about a new machine at the end of the last year but given the hassle of software migration and the pleasent performance and stability P3D3 brought I decided to wait for another year. The simulator is just fun as it runs right now, I rarely was so satisfied within 25 yrs of simming.

 

Kind regards, Michael

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@Michael

The 2600 is a great chip. In your case going from 3.4 to 4.7 OC is a significant step up (close to 40%). You would probably see a 50% gain in FPS overall. So if you are at 30FPS now you will make it to 45FPS but that is still short of the magic VSYNC number of 60. I think there is a possibility that Dovetail will find another 15 or so FPS in the new simulator to get you up to 60 FPS next year with new hardware.

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My 2600 is the non-k version, thus no overclocking. Actually, this was by purpose, I use the machine for real work, too (actually 95% of the time), which I don't want to compromize.

 

Honestly, I've never overclocked any of the machines I owned, which paid back by stability but as you write comes at the cost of a considerable percentage of less fps, which I agree to.

 

Kind regards, Michael

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I've got my 6700K @ 4.7 never goes above 65C. Runs P3D like a dream. 

 

What is your voltage?

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Not worth it.

 

Too much money for not enough benefit; hold off another 6-12 months. You can spend the same amount of money and get a bigger performance increase.

 

For reference, I went from a 4670K @ 4.4 GHz to a 6700K @ 4.7GHz and I was certainly not very impressed by the performance increase.

 

I only noticed a real difference when I upgraded my GTX 780 to a 980Ti (although I run P3D @ 4K)

 

Cheers

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What is your voltage?

Manual 1.380 and when I monitor it during realbench it goes to about 1408 max. Skylake takes more vcore then the others as long as you're under 1.5 you'll be fine.

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Michael, if you're happy with your hardware (and you should be, as that's a decent rig) you should be able the overclock the 2600K fairly easily to 4.5 without too much of an investment in a decent aftermarket cooler.

 

There are some building autogen optimizations hinted at in the next P3D update...if those are anywhere near as effective as the vegetation optimizations, we're looking at a not-insignificant boost right in the platform.

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Honestly, I've never overclocked any of the machines I owned, which paid back by stability

 

 I've been running moderate overclocks to all of my cpu's for almost 15 years and have never had stability issues. 

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I hear you guys... maybe one day I'll give it a try (preferably ask the guy in the shop to do it). But as I said, my present processor is non-k, thus no overclocking.

 

Thanks and kind regards, Michael

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If the CPU helps you to achieve those milestones FPS numbers then it is worth it. If you are just paying money to boost FPS by 25% - it is not. The sliders in the simulator settings may not always be able to give you the necessary boost. Sometimes you do have to go down the new hardware route.

Hmm yes that's exactly what I'm trying to find out. But I have no comparison to go by. Or at least not until Gordon's input above. Thanks for that Gordon. The 4670k is as close as it gets to a 4770k I guess and it seems quite certain now that I should not upgrade to the 6700k.

 

However the evil GAS syndrome has set in and I'm very tempted :(.

 

On a side note I already run a 970gtx so I won't be considering a GPU upgrade. Besides I feel that when it comes to P3D the GPU only matters when AA is concerned more or less. Does not really impact how much to the right you can set the "main" sliders and have smooth performance.

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Hmm yes that's exactly what I'm trying to find out. But I have no comparison to go by. Or at least not until Gordon's input above. Thanks for that Gordon. The 4670k is as close as it gets to a 4770k I guess and it seems quite certain now that I should not upgrade to the 6700k.

 

However the evil GAS syndrome has set in and I'm very tempted :sad:.

 

On a side note I already run a 970gtx so I won't be considering a GPU upgrade. Besides I feel that when it comes to P3D the GPU only matters when AA is concerned more or less. Does not really impact how much to the right you can set the "main" sliders and have smooth performance.

 

I know that syndrome really well it really gets in to your thinking doesn't in. Cold bucket time! I actually don't think you would even get a 25% gain. At a guess somewhere up to 20%. You not only have to overclock the i6700k on a water cooler but also upgrade and overclock the ram too. Are you trying to future proof or something? If you are already on 4.2GHz now on a chip that is 2013 vintage, I would save yourself the pain and wait to see how the simulator world evolves.

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@Niyoko

Unfortunately my problem lies with the CPU itself. It's a lousy quality job from a certain SEA country. I have a solid custom water cooling setup but without delidding the cpu there's no difference. I don't want to delid as its troublesome and will void the warranty

Ah, I see. It does then look like there is a hardware issue that is affecting you. I also can't blame you for wanting to stay far away from de-lidding the CPU. I've never done it. I know that I'll break something. In my case I recently upgraded from an AMD FX8320@4.6GHz and settled on the 4790K that I mentioned in my last post due to it having better heat transfer and power management.

 

It might just be time to upgrade not just for more FPS in Prepar3D, but because it looks like you got a badly binned CPU.

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