Update From the Dovetail Games Flight Team

[Chock 17,769]

I'd say a hardcore flight simmer could be anyone who is really into flight simming of any form, in more than a casual way. The fact that some people who fall into what most would call a hard core category might like flying airliners realistically in IFR, doesn't mean those who aren't so into airliners -  maybe prefering VFR - are not just as into their flight simming as anyone. Likewise, there are loads of people who are really into combat flight sims big time.

 

Anyone who is big into any of those things is a hard core flight simmer in my book, whether they're in a virtual 747 crossing the Pacific, virtual sight seeing in their Piper Cub, or lobbing virtual missiles with their F/A-18. In any case, I suspect there've been loads of casual simmers over the years who've bought the odd flight sim for fun, such buyers make the development of flight sims more economically feasible.

 

Hard core is what you make it; I know that in real life I've ended up prefering to fly what perhaps most regard as among the simplest of aeroplanes - gliders - because there's more of a focus on decision making based on an understanding of the medium you're flying in, in order to gain altitude and get where you want to go. I'd say you can't get more hardcore than flying an aeroplane in which every landing you make is one with no possibility of going around. I like that level of responsibility and control, and I know it makes you a better pilot to be doing all that stick and rudder malarkey, banked over at 60 degrees on a regular basis as you are when thermaling.

 

Thus I always think it's somewhat ironic the guy who most people would say is amongst the most hard core of pilots, is a guy whose most famous feat - despite being an airliner pilot - is making a glider landing on a river lol. And as he always says, he didn't do it on his own, sadly the media have roundly glossed over his co-pilot's contribution to that feat, and the cabin crew for that matter. This in spite of him always being at generous pains to point that out.

 

We need to concede that the more a flight sim can appeal to all kinds of flight simmers, whether through add-ons, or straight out of the box, whether casual or obsessed, the more chance it has of success.

[jcomm 5,975]

Very well put Chcok, particularly from an old glider pilot mindset :-)

[Wobbie 938]

I REALLY hate it when people decide & categorize  what a so called ' hard core' simmer is!!

Just because some of us drive around in cars, sail boats & other non-planes in the sim, certainly does not make us lesser simmers than those that fly by the numbers!

 

With all due respect guys, we are all in the same boat, from those having multiple screens, to those flying with a keyboard only!!

Just because there are some that maybe spend more time & money making their sim a better place, does not mean they can demand info from DTG (& others).

 

Just remember, we are discussing a future product from Dovetail GAMES!!

[rototom 198]

 

 

P3d is most suitable for IFR flying

 

Maybe you mean heavy tubeliner flying? definitely not IFR. X-plane is just as capable for IFR, and more so out of the box without addons. And of course any advantage that P3D has is not because of the simulator.

[Holdit 551]

With all due respect guys, we are all in the same boat, from those having multiple screens, to those flying with a keyboard only!!

Just because there are some that maybe spend more time & money making their sim a better place, does not mean they can demand info from DTG (& others).

 

If Dovetail don't like people asking for information, then they shouldn't release flowery, expectation-raising marketing blurb that invites any intelligent person to ask what is actually behind it in terms of content. This is a basic part of critical thinking: the examination of a claim to see if it actually holds water.

 

People can ask for anything they like, but equally, Dovetail are not obliged to provide answers. In response, people are entitled to draw their own conclusions about what a refusal to provide answers means. One simmer might conclude that the refusal to provide answers means that the content isn't there, another might take it to mean that the details are being kept secret for business reasons, others might come to different conclusions again. All are equally speculative, in the absence of hard information.

[Johan_Dees 84]

It is suspect that they are quiete, and not proud of their achievements.

However... that said, Bethesda was also quiete for a very long time on blockbuster Fallout 3 nand 4, and wham! There it was with a

short release date following the announcement.

 

Its the one or the other I guess, feed regular updates, or drop the bomb. In the latter case it should be very very good!

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

There are really two approaches to introducing new flight sim software. The first is for the developer to not say much at all until at least a closed beta test is well underway and even then, only release a few screen shots and videos (if that) until the release date is announced. The second approach  is to release a partially completed project as either an open beta or an evaluation version and let the community test the product.

 

Some companies follow the first approach such as PMDG, Lockheed Martin, A2A and ORBX. DTG seems to be using this model with its two flight sim products, although it's somewhat hard for me to say what is going on with DTG Flight Simulator.

 

There is nothing wrong with the second approach either. Laminar Research uses it for XP, as does HiFi for its weather products. The only danger is that an open beta version is such a complete mess that the community turns against the developer.

Maybe you mean heavy tubeliner flying? definitely not IFR. X-plane is just as capable for IFR, and more so out of the box without addons. And of course any advantage that P3D has is not because of the simulator.

Sorry, I have to disagree with that. I use 124th  ATC (a nice beta)  for ATC and World Traffic 2 for AI Traffic and neither is anywhere close to the host of available products for FSX and P3d. Without both of those items, one is really not "flying IFR". I like XP but it has some key weaknesses which is nothing new.

[pmb 5,138]

There's an interesting position open for the DT Flight Sim team as new Community Manager (posted 1 hr ago)

 

https://www.facebook.com/dtgflightschool

 

Think what you want.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[n4gix 4,955]

Unfortunately for me, they can only consider applicants who are already UK citizens, or legal residents with a work permit.

[rototom 198]

 

 

Sorry, I have to disagree with that. I use 124th  ATC (a nice beta)  for ATC and World Traffic 2 for AI Traffic and neither is anywhere close to the host of available products for FSX and P3d. Without both of those items, one is really not "flying IFR". I like XP but it has some key weaknesses which is nothing new.

 

All I have to do is connect to VATSIM or Pilotedge and I'm already ahead. I don't like talking to robots.

 

 

available products for FSX and P3d

 

And again, read the post, because I specifically said that any advantage (if you can call that an advantage) doesn't have anything to do with the P3D.

[Guest]

 

 

Unfortunately for me, they can only consider applicants who are already UK citizens, or legal residents with a work permit.

 

How ironic, I'm a dual national with both US and UK citizenship but that puts me on Trump's deportation list ... if I get deported to the UK, I'll have to check-in with DTG ... hopefully they'll grant a working permit for my wife so she can come with me (we have plans to move anyway).

 

The marked solution to this thread is obvious:

 

#1 is P3D

#2 is XP11

#3 is Aerofly2

#4 is DCS

#5 is DTG

 

IFR flying is for people that prefer to program flight, VFR is for people that prefer to fly ... if you do both then clearly there is something wrong with you as I can't put you into a specific category and that violates my basic instincts to categories everything and everyone.  

 

Since I know 100 people like P3D better than any other flight simulator, then clearly that means 500,000+ other users must all like P3D better too.  If you are unsure of these rather obvious alternative facts, please check my Tweeter feed for the only possible source of truth.   :wink:

 

Cheers, Rob.

[laserit 93]

How ironic, I'm a dual national with both US and UK citizenship but that puts me on Trump's deportation list ... if I get deported to the UK, I'll have to check-in with DTG ... hopefully they'll grant a working permit for my wife so she can come with me (we have plans to move anyway).

 

The marked solution to this thread is obvious:

 

#1 is P3D

#2 is XP11

#3 is Aerofly2

#4 is DCS

#5 is DTG

 

IFR flying is for people that prefer to program flight, VFR is for people that prefer to fly ... if you do both then clearly there is something wrong with you as I can't put you into a specific category and that violates my basic instincts to categories everything and everyone.  

 

Since I know 100 people like P3D better than any other flight simulator, then clearly that means 500,000+ other users must all like P3D better too.  If you are unsure of these rather obvious alternative facts, please check my Tweeter feed for the only possible source of truth.   :wink:

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

You can always move up here Rob

 

Don't worry about the work permits, you and your wife can work for me under the table jk

 

Cheers from Vancouver BC

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

 

 

And again, read the post, because I specifically said that any advantage (if you can call that an advantage) doesn't have anything to do with the P3D.

 

Well, now if you are talking about comparing the base sims, P3d has serviceable AI traffic and ATC. XP11 has neither. Just read the forums at .org. Those two items are the subject of the largest number of complaints from XP11 users, except possibly for the base XP11 not having dynamic seasons.

IFR flying is for people that prefer to program flight, VFR is for people that prefer to fly

 

 

Ha ha, I cant let you get away with that one. :wink:  In real life, no matter whether the conditions are IFR or VFR, it makes sense to fly with an IFR flight plan, unless one is just doodling around and sightseeing, which at those high prices, I doubt that many people do that anymore. I think there's a tendency here at AVSim to equate IFR flight with tubeliners. To me, even if one is flying a decent GA aircraft, the interplay between the pilot, ATC and other aircraft is a significant component of what you call flying. But, if all one is doing is flying from one uncontrolled airport to another on a sunny day, then there isn't any need for adding the detail imposed by IFR requirements. In the 35 years since I got my pilot's license, I have witnessed the decline in GA flying. The cost of mainentance and insurance has gone way up, not mention fuel and the price of aircraft. Unless something changes in aviation technology, I can see a day when the only GA flights will be with flight sims.

[stephenbgs 169]

 

 

Don't worry about the work permits, you and your wife can work for me under the table jk

 

:smile:  :smile:  I sure hope non native English speakers don't misinterpret that phrase

[rototom 198]

 

 

Well, now if you are talking about comparing the base sims, P3d has serviceable AI traffic and ATC. XP11 has neither. Just read the forums at .org. Those two items are the subject of the largest number of complaints from XP11 users, except possibly for the base XP11 not having dynamic seasons.

 

Who uses FSX/P3D ATC?, was it really worth the effort to put it in there if everyone wants an addon ATC? That's where LR did it right, focus on the simulator and leave room for addons. You can't put everything in the simulator. Everyone wants to complain about what X-plane doesn't have, yet they use nothing in FSX or P3D that is default including the FDE or the seasons which are now all ORBX textures.