On The Fence... STILL

[Desaix 235]

Well, let's be honest, a liner pilot cannot be confident in current XP environment. Study level for heavies 747 or 777 are lacking, though the 748 might partially fill the gap.

 

There's no stand alone ATC professional app, just a couple of plugins and some porting like Pilot2TAC which I think do require FSX database installed. Nothing plug & play.

 

Same for AI : I have WT2, I've done several ground routes pack for it, lots of liveries but in its current state is cumbersome to use to say the least and few airports covered with realistic flow. I'm optimistic for coming Ver3 but right now...

Never tried X-Life but I read quite many crash reports on their forum and I cannot do the neverending beta testers, furthermore it looks slowly updated.

 

No Copilot professional plugin like Fs2Crew and the like

 

No airline management like FsPassengers.

 

And as Murmur wrote there's little chance to see them coming in at least 6 months, but I'd say 2017.

 

Right now XP is a wonderful GA or casual liner simulator but it's missing too many stuff other platform have built during the last decade for liner lovers.

Again I have this feeling LR is slow as always to capitalize their success, no ATC improvement in XP11.0 is quite scandalous, nobody wants a professional deafult ATC but something basic that works...right now my impression is thet they fired the guy who worked on ATC for XP10 and don't know where to fix the code since he left no instructions on his desk.

 

On the plus side other software house are even slower...so maybe it's a common pace nowadays: AFS2 is promising an ATC but just said there will be just a basic one and no date even for a preview. DTG ...is there anybody there? LM could be developing 64 bit but we know that only based on Orbx marketing promises...we all watched how those turned for XPlane...

 

@Kuragiman

Xplane and liners without XEnviro is a no go option, at least weather is not a problem anymore for me

[Kuragiman 227]

the iexg 737 is every bit as good as the pmdg 737ngx, if you can fly the NGX you will find the 733 even more satisfying to fly, a bit more challenging but the fmc inputs are very similar, and honestly the sounds are better in the ixeg then the pmdg ngx. The FF 757 is awesome as well, i just bought it  but its every bit as good as the ixeg in terms of quality. I will say the JAR A320 needs work but it has tons of potential to be every bit as good as the aerosoft or better eventually. And what do you mean by modern metal? LMAO the A320 series was developed in the 80s, as was the 737 classic so not sure what you mean by that comment?

 

I'm a spoiled brat.   lol.  I want my 737NG series in full systems simulation level!  *holds breath and turns blue in the face until he gets what he wants*      I was watching a guy this morning use the JAR A320 with X-Life using upgraded JAR sound packs.  It was pretty nice looking.    I have the Aerosoft A320/A319 but never really learned it.    Boeing ###### and all has made me drag my feet on getting in depth with the A32x aircraft.    I guess I am just looking for the 737-800NG.  That's my baby, my love affair.    

 

I am in a flight right now from Oakland to Portland in a modified default 737-800NG (thanks Rich).    I can't believe Pushbacks aren't default modeled in the X-Plane engine.  @_@    And you can only download 20 add-ons a day from X-Plane.org so I can't get the Python plugin Ground Service mod yet.    Picking up my airplane and moving it back is....   not ideal.   lol.      

 

I am like Molder from X-files.   "I WANT TO BELIEVE".     I really do like the flight modeling and the fact that everything is 30 FPS, including the Avionics.  No compromising.    The default landclass and textures look fantastic.  Autogen is insane.   Car traffic beatiful.  Night lighting is orgasmic.   Fix that ATC, get good ground services and AI traffic, a weather engine that is consistently good (AS2016 style) and you in fact have the perfect sim.     

 

 

Again I have this feeling LR is slow as always to capitalize their success, no ATC improvement in XP11.0 is quite scandalous, nobody wants a professional deafult ATC but something basic that works...right now my impression is thet they fired the guy who worked on ATC for XP10 and don't know where to fix the code since he left no instructions on his desk.

 

LOL.  This is probably accurate.     Why did Default ATC tell me to Taxi to Runway 15 at KOAK via 29 11?    What the hell does that even mean?  @_@     And why rwy 15?  That's a very very short GA runway.    I had to go full power, breaks on, what for spin up then release breaks and pull up with just enough space left.      I am still trying to figure out   VIA 29 11.   @_@

[airlinejets 709]

 

 

Pilot2TAC which I think do require FSX database installed

Not needed.

[sd_flyer 6,022]

Yeah, Really.   For my needs I would like:

 

1.  A study level simulation of the aircraft I am interested in flying.   I am not interested in aircraft built in 1980 such as the 737-300.   I prefer more modern heavy iron.  Hopefully PMDG will take care of this before I die of old age.

2.  First officer simulation.   I think the only solution right now is MCE which I didn't like in FSX/P3D.   It will be no different in X-Plane.   The speech is way to unnatural sounding in all the demos I've watched.  It's powerful no doubt but requires a lot of setup on the end users part.   I guess you can always download someone else's scripts if you don't want to do it yourself. 

3.  PAX simulation.   Tools such as FS Captain and FS Passengers put the icing on the cake for simulating airline operations in FSX/P3D.   I don't think there is anything that does this for X-Plane yet.

4.  ATC suite that understands SIDS/STARS procedures and can actually interact with me and sound authenticate doing it.    X-Plane's ATC out of the box is terrible to me.   Pro-ATC/X is my go to for this in P3D.   I wish I had the same for X-Plane.   VATSIM is NOT a solution for this.

5.  True AI traffic that can clog up the airport and delay you, just like iRL.    I think X-Life Deluxe handles this for X-Plane?   I haven't had the chance to play with it.    Out of the box though, AI is non existent.   A lot of freeware airports come with great looking static aircraft thanks to MisterX and other contributors but they are just static and in fact break immersion if the airport designer forgot to block off a gate where a static craft was placed.    I spawned in at a freeware KDAL last night for testing purposes right inside another 737.

 

We all have our idea of what 'Hardcore' means.   That is part of mine.  X-Plane does not deliver TO ME what I want just yet.    I have done 2 full flights now and I see the potential.   It is very close but not quite there yet for me.

 

And for goodness sake.. Laminar... PLEASE... fix the terrible sky banding problem during dusk/dawn operations and even at night.    My eyes bleed every time I see it.   Does xEnviro fix that by chance?

 

1. When you get type rating for NG it also apply for 300 series. So it's not much 80th unlike 200 series and below. Some airlines is up to date still fly 300 series (Luftgansa is one on the top of my head)

2. Not much to simulate. Use your keyboard shortcuts and be proud of single pilot operation.

3. FF has pax announcements, unload/load. Pax also clup hands if you do nice lanidng. 

4. In my opinion there is no ACT program on the market that resembles real one. It doesn't exist  in P3D or in X-plane. Solution is to fly online 

5. No . And how would it be important ? How is important for example scheduled bus operation on the street of major cities ? Perhaps nice to have feature along with seasonal bird migration and other stuff.

 

To me X-plane is about stick and rudder, real weather, and realistic OOM free rendering environment. There are many free plugings and yet more to come to enhance XP environment.

 

Here two solutions I recommend:

1) Get yourself immerse in XP (as I did just two month ago). And slowly work with all thing you need and look forward to more thing to come.

2) Come back with OOM world of P3D and wait for 64 bit version. 

[Desaix 235]

Well known problem...as you can read between Kurigiman's lines he has already been bewitched by the dark side of Xplane and it's not easy to just say "well I go back to PR3D and wait"...

 

You start thinking..."cmon but these lights...how the hell I can cope with these bulbs now after XP HDR?" or "is just my impression but FSX internal engine must work at 800*600 while XP looks like 4K?" or "I thought this ORbx landclass was gorgeus but after flying over a L17 photoreal with autogen I think it's so gameish"

 

At least these were my feelings in the couple of months I managed to use both sims in parallel eventually disinstalling PR3D (to be honest it was not version 3.4) but still a frustrated feeling remains, I always keep repeating "just more love by LR on some topics and we would be happy". Like many coming from ESP paltform I ended up flying much more GA than before. Shorter flights with more scenery sightseeing.

[Kuragiman 227]

1. When you get type rating for NG it also apply for 300 series. So it's not much 80th unlike 200 series and below. Some airlines is up to date still fly 300 series (Luftgansa is one on the top of my head)

2. Not much to simulate. Use your keyboard shortcuts and be proud of single pilot operation.

3. FF has pax announcements, unload/load. Pax also clup hands if you do nice lanidng. 

4. In my opinion there is no ACT program on the market that resembles real one. It doesn't exist  in P3D or in X-plane. Solution is to fly online 

5. No . And how would it be important ? How is important for example scheduled bus operation on the street of major cities ? Perhaps nice to have feature along with seasonal bird migration and other stuff.

 

To me X-plane is about stick and rudder, real weather, and realistic OOM free rendering environment. There are many free plugings and yet more to come to enhance XP environment.

 

Here two solutions I recommend:

1) Get yourself immerse in XP (as I did just two month ago). And slowly work with all thing you need and look forward to more thing to come.

2) Come back with OOM world of P3D and wait for 64 bit version. 

 

 

1.  Yes.  I could easily fly that IEXG 300.  I have 1500 hours in the 737NGX.    But I want the PFD/MFDs, engines, overhead HUD system and more modernized cockpit that the 300 does not have.   We all have our favorite plane, no?

2.  I'd rather operate the aircraft like it would be irl.. with another pilot in the FO chair.   FS2Crew does this brilliantly and it would be nice to have a similar product.

3.  It also tracks my career, grades my performance, simulates icing and failures, ground delay operations, bird strikes and other threats a pilot would find themselves facing every day.

4.  Pro/ATC-X does an amazing job of AI driven ATC imo.    The solution is not to fly online only.  It's to get devs the proper SDK they need to make a good ATC add-on.  Not all of us like to be talked down to by a 15 year old with a cheap Radio Shack mic.   (Pilot's Edge is epic though).

5.  How could airport traffic be important to airline operations?   Ummm.. I don't know...   it forces proper airport operations such as.. waiting in turn?  Taxi in sequence?  Hold short and runway crossing procedures now have to be followed... you know.. .real world stuff.   That's what I like.   Maybe others like barreling 50 knots down a taxiway and zooming across runway intersections without the need to stop and look both ways before crossing the street?    :wink:

 

I am still poking around in X-Plane and my opinion is swaying in favor of as I play with it.    As for OOM world of P3D...  I don't suffer from those anymore though a 64 bit version would be nice so we can turn up all the eye candy and not explode on final.

[tonywob 4,768]

 

 

Yes.  I could easily fly that IEXG 300.  I have 1500 hours in the 737NGX.    But I want the PFD/MFDs, engines, overhead HUD system and more modernized cockpit that the 300 does not have.   We all have our favorite plane, no?

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that PMDG will at some point port their 737NGX to X-Plane. When that will be is anyone's guess, and we know how long PMDG take with their releases.

 

 

You start thinking..."cmon but these lights...how the hell I can cope with these bulbs now after XP HDR?" or "is just my impression but FSX internal engine must work at 800*600 while XP looks like 4K?" or "I thought this ORbx landclass was gorgeus but after flying over a L17 photoreal with autogen I think it's so gameish"

 

What gets me everytime I go back and try P3D or FSX is how hard it is to get it working well. I tried the new release of P3D last weekend, and had to install camera addons, ORBX packs, a GNS unit, ORBX Global, etc. My X52 joystick or TrackIR didn't work or was configured out of the box. For user experience and ease-of-use, X-Plane is the absolute winner here. 

[sd_flyer 6,022]

1.  Yes.  I could easily fly that IEXG 300.  I have 1500 hours in the 737NGX.    But I want the PFD/MFDs, engines, overhead HUD system and more modernized cockpit that the 300 does not have.   We all have our favorite plane, no?

2.  I'd rather operate the aircraft like it would be irl.. with another pilot in the FO chair.   FS2Crew does this brilliantly and it would be nice to have a similar product.

3.  It also tracks my career, grades my performance, simulates icing and failures, ground delay operations, bird strikes and other threats a pilot would find themselves facing every day.

4.  Pro/ATC-X does an amazing job of AI driven ATC imo.    The solution is not to fly online only.  It's to get devs the proper SDK they need to make a good ATC add-on.  Not all of us like to be talked down to by a 15 year old with a cheap Radio Shack mic.   (Pilot's Edge is epic though).

5.  How could airport traffic be important to airline operations?   Ummm.. I don't know...   it forces proper airport operations such as.. waiting in turn?  Taxi in sequence?  Hold short and runway crossing procedures now have to be followed... you know.. .real world stuff.   That's what I like.   Maybe others like barreling 50 knots down a taxiway and zooming across runway intersections without the need to stop and look both ways before crossing the street?    :wink:

 

I am still poking around in X-Plane and my opinion is swaying in favor of as I play with it.    As for OOM world of P3D...  I don't suffer from those anymore though a 64 bit version would be nice so we can turn up all the eye candy and not explode on final.

 

People were flying level D and PMDG long before Fs2Crew came along

I also used to own Pro/ATC-X,. BUt  after ending  up finishing couple of my flights CFIT (during IMC  condition under watchful eye of ProATC) I gave up.

 

Like I said there are a lot of plugins out there. I use only few of them, but I saw one with follow me car that may satisfy you sequencing need ( which I hate so much in real life)

 

I'm also fly Virtual United Airlines which ACARS system works ok with XP11 (all betas). Real life gates, flight planning, weather minus ATC. I used plug to hear actual ATC around the world for the sake of environment. 

 

You should give a shot with IXEG. There are not much difference between NG other than few extra MFD (that I'm pretty sure you cal live with). But special effect of cockpit shaking during taxi is so amazing that my friend (who is actual AA 737 captain) said "this is exactly how in real airplane, amazing"

[Desaix 235]

@ Tonywob

That's why I cannot really support two sims anymore, I prefer to work on scenery design if I have to choose...and I guess I'm not alone  :wink:

[caaront 109]

I'll always love FSX/P3D, I love XP10, and 11 now that I have delved into them, and I I am engaged in and totally entralled with, and quite smitten with AFFS 2, they all have quirks, and endearing points.

 

But, I am quite sure that Occulus Rift will make me glad I never invested even more thousands (I have so much in P3D, starting from FSX, that I could have about 5 high end AR 15 with all the bells and whistles, but get more use from the FS's.

 

I love them all.

[trevg 21]

Maybe those coming from FS that want ATC etc that have RC4 already, you can use it with xp along with multicrew experience for your co-pilot.

[sizziano 172]

1.  Yes.  I could easily fly that IEXG 300.  I have 1500 hours in the 737NGX.    But I want the PFD/MFDs, engines, overhead HUD system and more modernized cockpit that the 300 does not have.   We all have our favorite plane, no?

2.  I'd rather operate the aircraft like it would be irl.. with another pilot in the FO chair.   FS2Crew does this brilliantly and it would be nice to have a similar product.

3.  It also tracks my career, grades my performance, simulates icing and failures, ground delay operations, bird strikes and other threats a pilot would find themselves facing every day.

4.  Pro/ATC-X does an amazing job of AI driven ATC imo.    The solution is not to fly online only.  It's to get devs the proper SDK they need to make a good ATC add-on.  Not all of us like to be talked down to by a 15 year old with a cheap Radio Shack mic.   (Pilot's Edge is epic though).

5.  How could airport traffic be important to airline operations?   Ummm.. I don't know...   it forces proper airport operations such as.. waiting in turn?  Taxi in sequence?  Hold short and runway crossing procedures now have to be followed... you know.. .real world stuff.   That's what I like.   Maybe others like barreling 50 knots down a taxiway and zooming across runway intersections without the need to stop and look both ways before crossing the street?    :wink:

 

I am still poking around in X-Plane and my opinion is swaying in favor of as I play with it.    As for OOM world of P3D...  I don't suffer from those anymore though a 64 bit version would be nice so we can turn up all the eye candy and not explode on final.

I totally understand what you're saying but I really think you should give the IXEG a chance. It's the most immersive add-on I have seen and it's a joy to hand fly. I would wait until v1.1 for the FMC fixes. Don't dismiss it just because it's "old"

 

 

Felipe Vicini

[Kuragiman 227]

I'm sure I read somewhere that PMDG will at some point port their 737NGX to X-Plane. When that will be is anyone's guess, and we know how long PMDG take with their releases.

 

 

 

What gets me everytime I go back and try P3D or FSX is how hard it is to get it working well. I tried the new release of P3D last weekend, and had to install camera addons, ORBX packs, a GNS unit, ORBX Global, etc. My X52 joystick or TrackIR didn't work or was configured out of the box. For user experience and ease-of-use, X-Plane is the absolute winner here. 

 

Yeah, I have to admit, P3D does require a lot of band-aides to get it looking epic.  I have unfortunately (fortunately?) bought the entire First Aide kit for P3D.  lol.    So it looks great, sounds great, flies great.     When I did my landing at Portland today in X-Plane it had a special something to it lacking in P3D, even with the 737NGX.   It felt so fluid and felt like a real plane as I was coming down to the threshold.    I could have done without X-Plane PAUSING the sim on touch down to throw a pop up in my face that I should be killed for daring to not follow ATC instructions... where were a joke in the first place.    Can you turn that off?  I don't need X-Plane hitting me with game stopping Pop Ups every time I do the slightest thing wrong in its eyes.

I totally understand what you're saying but I really think you should give the IXEG a chance. It's the most immersive add-on I have seen and it's a joy to hand fly. I would wait until v1.1 for the FMC fixes. Don't dismiss it just because it's "old"

 

 

Felipe Vicini

 

It really does look impressive.  I watched videos but those gaping holes in the front panel because the gear 'doesn't exist yet' were for some reason irritating my brain.  lol.   Hard to explain.   As I said, I am spoiled on the newer flight tech.

[sizziano 172]

 

 

It really does look impressive. I watched videos but those gaping holes in the front panel because the gear 'doesn't exist yet' were for some reason irritating my brain. lol. Hard to explain. As I said, I am spoiled on the newer flight tech.

 

You mean these areas where you can see the cables?

[Kuragiman 227]

You mean these areas where you can see the cables?

 

No.  That's actually great modeling.    The empty spaces where the newer MFD/PFDs go.

 

I am doing my 3rd test flight right now from KMCO to KDAL.   Getting 53 FPS externally and 42 internally at FL360 going up the coast line.   I can't wait to get a new 7700k and GTX 1080.     I have an older 3930k and GTX 980 and it gets the job done but I want a better job.