Another P3Der to XP trial thoughts...just for sharing and discussion

[Denco 48]

1 hour ago, MortenM said:

Do you mind explaining what you mean by that?

Quote

 

From Wiki:

In fixed-wing aircraft, ground effect is the increased lift (force) and decreased aerodynamic drag that an aircraft's wings generate when they are close to a fixed surface.[1] When landing, ground effect can give the pilot the feeling that the aircraft is "floating".

 

Most of us noticed that there is little to none ground effect present when landing and the planes have the tendency to drop down the nose on a flare. If you check the video bellow you will see that a pilot doesn't need to apply much pressure to the yoke upon landing when flaring and there is no nose down dropping. Something that is simulated quite well in PMDG planes. While doing this in XP 11 is quite impossible unless your V/S is at around 400 feet or you move your yoke violently back making it impossible to land per SOP. I can't remember if it was the same with XP10 but something isn't right in XP 11.

 

More info here:

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/119716-landing-smoothly-in-x-plane-11/&

 

EDIT: Please not this might not be related to ground effect and might be something entirely different problem. I'm no expert :)

Edited May 21, 2017 by Denco

[60North 120]

24 minutes ago, Denco said:

Most of us noticed that there is little to none ground effect present when landing and the planes have the tendency to drop down the nose on a flare. If you check the video bellow you will see that a pilot doesn't need to apply much pressure to the yoke upon landing when flaring and there is no nose down dropping. Something that is simulated quite well in PMDG planes. While doing this in XP 11 is quite impossible unless your V/S is at around 400 feet or you move your yoke violently back making it impossible to land per SOP. I can't remember if it was the same with XP10 but something isn't right in XP 11.

This is some bug in XP11, in XP10 it works as it should (I helped LR with it).  New XP versions are usually very buggy for quite a while. Austin made big changes to parts of the flight model and probably broke something.  

 

[Murmur 3,940]

Checking the "ground effect" data output, the increase in C_l near ground level seems quite weak even for airliners indeed. Maybe there's a bug, but I have no hard data other than that.

 

[alpha12125 213]

that would explain my let`s say "gear testing" landings i seem to have more often in xp11. I was doubting myself abit because my landing seemed to be ok in xp10 but have been rather firm in xp11 :D

[CVEP 13]

It is normal that the nose drops when you pull back the throttle. You can see the copilot pull back on the yoke quite a bit right before touch dow I agree there could be more ground effect.

[bonchie 2,305]

I'll interject and say that XP's ground effect isn't prominent enough and FSX's is way, way, way overdone (which is why planes tend to float so badly in FSX/P3D).

I prefer XP's because it at least feels like the plane has some weight in the flare. But it's admittedly got issues.

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by bonchie

[60North 120]

1 hour ago, bonchie said:

... and FSX's is way, way, way overdone (which is why planes tend to float so badly in FSX/P3D).

Correct, FSX has got it very wrong according to the documentation I've seen.  They have mixed up several of the effects, confusing span with chord etc. 

XP10 is very close, XP11 appears to have some issues, but thats most likely an unintentional bug that will get fixed.  Might not even be ground effect related.

Edited May 22, 2017 by MortenM

[sd_flyer 6,022]

Dropping nose on touch down has nothing to do with ground effect. I had numerous students who drop the nose gear during a landing or landing "flat" (not on the main wheel). I see no difference on how I land airplane in real life and in X-plane 11. Although there are some airplanes that more nose "heavy" and requite a bit extra trim and little effort to keep the nose gear up during round up. For example my 182F was on of such planes.

To make long story short, as long as I stick to correct power settings and Vref I can hit desired point in XP11 without any problem. I tried several GA planes in XP11 that I flown in real life. So far Airfoillabs 172 is the winner. 

[WebMaximus 372]

Thanks for all great info in this thread and to the OP for creating it.

I've been in the MSFS and nowadays P3D camp for many years but have started to get more and more curious of XP for various reasons.

Today when P3Dv4 was announced I wasn't particularly impressed nor surprised what I've seen and read so far. In all honesty it's of course early days for P3Dv4 but still...not that tempted to pay another $199.

Unfortunately though (after reading this thread) my XP adventures will probably have to wait for a bit longer because I do all my flying in the NGX online on Vatsim using FS2Crew, GSX, AS16 etc etc and until those or their equivalents are available in XP it's not for me I'm afraid. I was also surprised to read there's no seasons in XP. Wasn't aware of that.

Lastly I'm doing most of my flying in VR since a couple of months back using a pair of Oculus Rift glasses and the FlyInside software. This though should work OK in XP as well if I understood correctly.

Well, guess I'll be staying with P3Dv3 for the time being. At least I have one very nice thing to look forward to not related to any particular simulator...my new Brunner CLS-E yoke with an ETA of tomorrow

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

What's up with no seasons out of the box thing? That seriously can't be that hard to do.

[yidahoo 365]

3 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

What's up with no seasons out of the box thing? That seriously can't be that hard to do.

Depends if you just want to drape textures over things or do it properly. Laminar want to do it properly with proper dynamic snowfall building up as it gets heavier, trees shedding leaves etc. Then its not so easy but its on the roadmap and should look spectacular. 

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

1 minute ago, yidahoo said:

Depends if you just want to drape textures over things or do it properly. Laminar want to do it properly with proper dynamic snowfall building up as it gets heavier, trees shedding leaves etc. Then its not so easy but its on the roadmap and should look spectacular. 

If you put it like that of course I'd prefer the spectacular one ;)

[WebMaximus 372]

Yep, having true seasons would be an amazing step forward! 

[WebMaximus 372]

Here's another great comparison and seeing the simulators side by side like this I wish what is currently missing in XP pointed out in this thread will find its way to XP rather sooner than later.

As soon as I'm able to simulate airline flying in XP I see myself ditching P3D despite all my investments in that platform.

I hope major and important add-on developers such as PMDG, HiFi just to mention a few will realize the time has come to start looking in the direction of XP.

Noticed how more and more scenery developers already realized this so let's keep our fingers crossed more will follow that example.

 

[Murmur 3,940]

Apparently, a revision of the default ATC is coming. A better AI is another one of the few things lacking for a more immersive airliner experience.