glider_uk

Are you getting even usage across all Cores?

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Title asks the question as I am not.

X5960 OC'd to 4Ghz. HT on so 16 cores.
CPU 0 100% CPU 1 25% all the rest negligible usage.

Just curious what anybody else is getting?

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My 5820k @4.5 has all cores nearly at 100% only core 1 is about 75 %

I need more cores ;-)

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Nope. There is some trick with task manager to uncheck the affinity for CPU 0, then re-enable it and it's supposedly evens the core usage. Whatever that means ultimately for the sim, I don't know.

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Also on a 5960x @ 4.375GHz. Seeing pretty heavy usage on 15 threads. Core 0 sees almost constant 95%+ usage due to it being the main thread for the sim. The rest of the cores work pretty heavily to render the terrain. Core 1 doesn't see much usage, as it's the logical of 0 and the main thread doesn't multi-thread. Also discovered my game becomes smoother when I remove Core 1 completely for the P3D.exe.

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I loved to know how to clock that high, no good at that, My GPU is only running at Max 30%.
 

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12 minutes ago, glider_uk said:

I loved to know how to clock that high, no good at that, My GPU is only running at Max 30%.
 

It's actually on the low side for the 5960x, as I'm staying around 1.3 volt. It's not recommended to go over 1.3 with these for daily usage.

But it takes a bit of messing around. Using my ram's 3000 Mhz XMP, which enables a BCLK of 125. Ratio at 35 and then play with offset voltage, as manual voltage kills power saving features and auto voltage just applies way too much. Run a few stress tests and you're golden. 

Yes, I know, easier said than done.

EDIT: Here's a quick snap of my CPU usage in the air

B4XvvHD.jpg

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It's somewhat difficult for me to understand how to answer the question as phrased. First, I think to test CPU "evenness", one should put all the IQ settings to the max, such that both the CPU and GPU are stressed heavily. When I do so with my i7-6700 (OCed to 4.4)/GTX 1080 setup, I get :

1. HT on: CPU 0 95-100%, CPU 1 25-30% and the remaining 6 logical cores 80-100%. My GPU is generally at 90-100%.

2. HT off: all 4 physical cores 50-100% (which appears to be related to scenery loading as the aircraft moves across the landscape), GPU 90-100%.

This includes all presently available ORBX add-ons, ASP4/ASCA, My T 6 (40%/15%) and TrackIR.

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27 minutes ago, AviatorMoser said:

Nope. There is some trick with task manager to uncheck the affinity for CPU 0, then re-enable it and it's supposedly evens the core usage. Whatever that means ultimately for the sim, I don't know.

That did the trick, it hasn't increased my FPS much but the load seems more spread

9 minutes ago, Sethos1988 said:

It's actually on the low side for the 5960x, as I'm staying around 1.3 volt. It's not recommended to go over 1.3 with these for daily usage.

But it takes a bit of messing around. Using my ram's 3000 Mhz XMP, which enables a BCLK of 125. Ratio at 35 and then play with offset voltage, as manual voltage kills power saving features and auto voltage just applies way too much. Run a few stress tests and you're golden. 

Yes, I know, easier said than done.

Erm Yeah ok. I should really look into this, I paid for a watercooled processor on a Asus Rampage extreme and never really took the time to investigate it.

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We don't expect to see even use of all "cores" since that's not how it works. Also the nomenclature is confusing, when HT is enabled we should think in terms of logical processors (LPs). That's because each core has two LPs - with HT enabled they share throughput of that core. So for example when we see both HT LPs of the same core at 100% each, they are in fact only at 50% of core throughput.

But then with P3D we have one monolithic process for the UI and Scene rendering, and several others also monolithic, but these others don't max out unless scene loading, they may well only be at 30%.

It's best to give the main process a whole core by enabling only one LP of the first core we want to allocate with the Affinity Mask in the Prepar3D.cfg jobsheduler section.

We understand this first sim process requires maximum throughput, the same bandwidth can be given to the other processes of the sim by allocating one LP from each of the other cores. We would like to give the first two processes maximum throughput of our available cores, but we can allocate two LPs of each core after the second process which can optimise use of those cores and utilise the efficiency of HT at the same time. With eight cores we need not bother, worth testing though.

The sim processes split out over four LPs to produce the leanest first process. We can add LPs, when we do the sim splits out the scenery loading processes to improve the scenery loading speed (up to a point)

So with the eight core +HT CPU we can use an Affinity Mask (AM) = 00,00,01,01,01,01,00,00=1360 this allows the sim to slit over 4 processes one LP of each of four cores. We can add a couple of LPs to split the loading over 6 cores with 00,01,01,01,01,01,01,00=5460. Leaving cores free allows the jobscheduler to target those cores with new work rather than interrupt the flow of the sim cores. When no AM is used then inevitably, since each core has a process of the sim running, the sim will be interrupted by new work and does not leverage the fact we have many cores to split the work over more intelligently. Use a batch file to restrict affinity of exe apps to those cores unused by the sim.

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...finally - even though we use an AM, this only controls the LPs used by the sim. Even so at some stage the jobsheduler may possibly target new work at the spare LPs of the cores used by the sim. This happens irrespective of HT enabled or not, but when HT is enabled, at least the time taken switching processes on those cores is considerably reduced. Apps that control their own affinity setting usually work in this monolithic way - FSX and P3D are very similar.

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2 minutes ago, SteveW said:

...finally - even though we use an AM, this only controls the LPs used by the sim. Even so at some stage the jobsheduler may possibly target new work at the spare LPs of the cores used by the sim. This happens irrespective of HT enabled or not, but when HT is enabled, at least the time taken switching processes on those cores is considerably reduced. Apps that control their own affinity setting usually work in this monolithic way - FSX and P3D are very similar.

In fsx I could set affinity mask. In p3dv4 if I set affinity mask my scenery all around is very blurry. Am I doing something incorrect?

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15 minutes ago, SteveW said:

So with the eight core +HT CPU we can use an Affinity Mask (AM) = 00,00,01,01,01,01,00,00=1360

Hi Steve,

I have an i7 4790K with HT (hyper threading) ENABLED. In order to give the main process a whole core by enabling only one LP of the first core, as you mention above, what do you recommend?

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WIth TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP = 10, with lower, it goes little bit down

 

p3dv4_usage.png

 

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3 hours ago, MikeT707 said:

Hi Steve,

I have an i7 4790K with HT (hyper threading) ENABLED. In order to give the main process a whole core by enabling only one LP of the first core, as you mention above, what do you recommend?

I'm using 253, but, each system is different, so play with it little and will see what works for you.

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No, v4 has still no multicore support, neither HT support. The load balance you see come from the OS itsself who handles the CPU load. v4 supports only single Core.

And dont use AffinityMask, it will blurr all textures as soon they needs reloaded and autogen gets not generated anymore.

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10 minutes ago, Nytro said:

No, v4 has still no multicore support, neither HT support. The load balance you see come from the OS itsself who handles the CPU load. v4 supports only single Core.

And dont use AffinityMask, it will blurr all textures as soon they needs reloaded and autogen gets not generated anymore.

That makes absolutely no sense and besides it's incorrect. Even in P3d V2 (and FSX for that matter), various threads were assigned by the app to specific cores. 

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As mentioned the trick to even core usage is in Task Manager/Details : Right click on P3D-->Set Affinity-->Check 4 cores are selected--> Click Ok. 

I always do it.

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21 minutes ago, Nytro said:

No, v4 has still no multicore support, neither HT support. The load balance you see come from the OS itsself who handles the CPU load. v4 supports only single Core.

And dont use AffinityMask, it will blurr all textures as soon they needs reloaded and autogen gets not generated anymore.

 

Of course it uses multi cores for threaded workers which load scenery. Thats reason why you see more blurries etc when use AM wrong way.

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26 minutes ago, Nytro said:

No, v4 has still no multicore support, neither HT support. The load balance you see come from the OS itsself who handles the CPU load. v4 supports only single Core.

And dont use AffinityMask, it will blurr all textures as soon they needs reloaded and autogen gets not generated anymore.

Absolutely not true.

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35 minutes ago, Jiri Kocman said:

WIth TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP = 10, with lower, it goes little bit down

 

p3dv4_usage.png

 

80° !?! :mo_tt_mulut:

Btw, and for the probably 186 time on this forum... :rolleyes: I can't find the damn thing "TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP = 10" in neither Prepar3D.cfg neither in Terrain.cfg. Where the hell is he ? Or he's not created in vanilla versions, but you can add it as new entrance ?

And how does it help me, exactly ? :senang:

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I've been using Process Lasso to set all other programs that use higher CPU percentage to use all other cores, and run P3D4 on high priority, some mem tweaks in there too.

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9 minutes ago, gamer19 said:

80° !?! :mo_tt_mulut:

Btw, and for the probably 186 time on this forum... :rolleyes: I can't find the damn thing "TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP = 10" in neither Prepar3D.cfg neither in Terrain.cfg. Where the hell is he ? Or he's not created in vanilla versions, but you can add it as new entrance ?

And how does it help me, exactly ? :senang:

TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP is not default in v4 you have to add it into prepar3d.cfg into [TERRAIN] section.

Default value is 8, that means that textures 256x256 will be read, with value of 9 textures of 512x512 will be read that, it increase your LOD effectively as better textures are used for distant scenery. Value of 10 uses 1024x1024 textures.

Effect in sim - longer loading time, can reduce performance, but no blurries on distant scenery.... better eye candy. 8GB video memory for value 8 is absolutely minimum, 11-12GB cards are mostly must. That is reason that you cant set it in GUI. Default + detailed textures checkbox do same as TSE=9 and it nedds about 4GB VRAM

 

80° sure even custom liquid cooling, it is OCed 4790k, that is nothing special for that CPU. limit is 99°C

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29 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

As mentioned the trick to even core usage is in Task Manager/Details : Right click on P3D-->Set Affinity-->Check 4 cores are selected--> Click Ok. 

I always do it.

I used to do that too for a long long time I was one of the early disciples of it. Since then, I redid tests and there is no performance gain from doing it my end. I also tested core temps since core 0 is working so hard but I saw no lowering of core 0 temps even after doing this. I think SteveW has said in the past, it is an illusion because the usage graph doesn't actually measure true core usage.

Here is my conclusion then:

The ultimate best way to gauge core usage is to monitor core temperatures. The usage graphs are misleading. That is my understanding.

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4 hours ago, MikeT707 said:

Hi Steve,

I have an i7 4790K with HT (hyper threading) ENABLED. In order to give the main process a whole core by enabling only one LP of the first core, as you mention above, what do you recommend?

Hi Mike,

Same as with eight cores - four LPs one per core, this is the most efficient use of the current CPUs, which can be seen within the AMs I specified for the eight core above. With the eight core (and six core) there's spare cores for the jobscheduler to target with the processes of addon exe apps and other work arising. With only four cores and a sim that wants four cores, those exe apps and other work will have to be done on the cores of the sim. Use a bat file to start addon exe apps on 10,10,00,00 and use an AM=85=01,01,01,01. You can hand over more CPU throughput to addons with an AM=116=01,11,01,00 and putting addons on 00,00,00,11 for which the sim still performs well on only three cores.

Adding an AM is actually a necessity for affinity handling apps such as P3D especially when HT is enabled, and even more so as the core counts go up. However a poorly specified AM can reduce the number of LPs the sim starts processes on and so if used incorrectly can make a blurry mess.

With the eight core I showed we could use six cores of '01's, this increases scenario loading speed and so can reduce the chance of blurriness in the land textures. We can't do that with only four cores but we can bring the efficiency of HT to increase the loading speed with for example an AM=11,11,01,01=245 where we have enabled six LPs, the first two on the right have a core to themselves '01,01' since they can't split out over more LPs anyway. However the second pair of cores have two LPs enabled per core, this enables the scenery loading to split out and utilise two pairs of LPs loading data, but saturates the HT core during loading - this may not be so bad even if we have addon exe's restricted to those two last cores as with 10,10,00,00 mentioned. Anyway that's a problem for those with only four cores, with six or more, it's easier to keep addon exe interference at bay. Don't be fooled by a little tiny exe app using only 6% CPU time, it can stagger the sim just as any app can.

Since most exe addons are also SimConnect apps they create a SimConnect client process on the sim cores loading them up further and adding to networking overhead. These processes work best with two or more LPs as they can be forced to wait too often on a single LP, you can see I specified two LPs for addons, and we can put many addons on the same two LPs..

Remember that fps is generated within the first process from the selection of objects and the frequency of the core, this rate continues irrespective of background throughput. We can't see the difference with CPU setups when the GPU is flat-lined on too much Anti-Aliasing for example, VSync and eye candy should be turned off when comparing CPU setups and AMs.

 

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Oki thank you then Jiri. I got GTX 770 with tiny 2G I guess I better not touch anything. I got plenty of eye candy right now. I really don't want to ruin my frames, again. :biggrin: Since I've just manage to turn them back to 50+ on the ground, with quite high settings. Hope I won't jinx it again. :uwe_melk:

My i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz is also overclocked (I believe it's on 4G now) but it goes little over 40°. Some Zalman regular fan.

Say, this must be some kind of typo right ?

Quote

8GB video memory for value 8 is absolutely minimum

?? Since you say:

Quote

Default + detailed textures checkbox do same as TSE=9 and it nedds about 4GB VRAM

It can't be that TSE=8 needs double more. And we all use those TSE=8 values, even guys with weaker cards than mine.

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