Terblanche

P3D4 Dynamic Lights and FPS drop

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I've read the argument of the influence of some 3rd party scenery and the FPS drop when switching on the B744's lights but why will the FPS drop when you switch lights on over the ocean? And why will the same airport (FSDT Vancouver for example) have NO FPS drop when I switch the lights on of a Carenado aircraft that are P3D4 compatible? And if it is only on my system, then I would like to know what is the influence of the QOTSII on my rig because on FSX everything is smooth and NO FPS drop? And lastly - is there a correlation between ORBX night lights and the B744 because in daytime everything is smooth but when the night comes ... ♪♫ ... tralalaa!

Must say, I know P3D4 is new on the market and most definitely the future within the 64-bit environment but goodness gracious between the stuttering and shimmering and endless tweaking trying to solve it, it is more of a frustration at the moment than a joy. Accept when I start up the compatible Carenado aircraft and hip-hop over some ORBX terrain scenery like Norway. Then it is all smooth sailing but the moment I turn on the B744 then everything turns off ... and as I say, if my rig is good enough for a very VERY smooth FSX performance then it should surely be more than good enough for P3D4.

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I'm with you here. I think I'm at the point where if I want to fly PMDG aircraft, I need to do it during the day, with DL off. If I want to fly at night, well, I can turn AA down so much that all the lights shimmer so bad it's like I'm flying over a Christmas light park.

Can PMDG at least give users the option to install a non-DL light option? So that landing, taxi, turn off lights work and illuminate the ground with any dependency on DL? To be honest, DL is cool--and maybe only slightly cooler than dynamic reflections (does anyone use this?), but it's simply not feasible for any of us that use even moderate AA settings. I'm using a GTX1080Ti for crap's sake...

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10 minutes ago, garrett_frank said:

I'm using a GTX1080Ti for crap's sake..

Me too ... and 32GB of RAM ... and a FSX locked at 30 FPS that hardly ever drops below 25 even at EDDF or EGLL :blush:

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I'm running a 980Ti and it's just fine. There are numerous posts out there with suggestions on how to properly configure things without the sim environment dragging you down.

To the "can we have the option" comment: it's not that simple.

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1 minute ago, scandinavian13 said:

There are numerous posts out there with suggestions on how to properly configure things without the sim environment dragging you down.

Will PMDG be so kind to give us a summary because I've searched and googled and there are a 1000 opinions but very little "suggestions on how to properly configure" - my P3D4 settings are already toned down according to some recommendations and although I prefer to leave Nvidia Inspector as it is, I've followed some advice to set that as well with neither having any effect on the impact of the landing lights.

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I also have a 1080ti

My experience with the 744 and dynamic lighting is that when I activate and run the Taxi lights or the Landing lights without the other it adds about 6% to my GPU utilization and my FPS remains the same. When I activate and run them both it adds 30% to my GPU utilization. It doesn't matter what kind of order you activate them, singly=6% both=%30

I can maintain frame rate as long as I can make adjustments to keep my GPU from maxing out. 

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What is your AA setting Floyd?  I am aware that SSAA can be a killer on performance for some systems including my 980Ti.

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19 minutes ago, downscc said:

What is your AA setting Floyd?  I am aware that SSAA can be a killer on performance for some systems including my 980Ti.

4XSSAA

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I am swapping my 1080 for a 1080ti OC tomorrow in the hopes this will help a little with this.

I can confirm I see the FPS drop even at a stock standard P3D airport with AA settings using SSAA, but anything less looks nasty so I accept the hit.

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9 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

To the "can we have the option" comment: it's not that simple.

I didn't imply that it was.

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10 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

I'm running a 980Ti and it's just fine.

As you can see from above, it's not so easy to just bring sliders down and or tweak the GPU ... maybe PMDG can advice on the recommended settings and/or investigate what it is with the QOTSII that hit the FPS for a home run when you switch on the lights. My gut tells me it has something to with the fact that the B744 has an AI-object for the lighting and that there is a tension/strain between the two. But I can be completely wrong.

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I personally believe that this is an efficiency issue with using SSAA in the P3Dv4 code, not a PMDG specific issue. I don't believe it is ONLY related to unoptimized P3Dv3/2/1 ported scenery. This may be an issue for some; but it is not the only cause.

I can't comment on the 744 using an AI object for lighting... I don't even know how you found this out...

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34 minutes ago, 77west said:

I can't comment on the 744 using an AI object for lighting... I don't even know how you found this out...

When I bought the B744 for FSX I had a problem that the landing lights did not work, or it will work on take-off but when I arrived they are gone. Then one day I saw on my Aivlasoft EFB screen on separate computer that there is a AI object right behind my aircraft following me around. When I land it somehow get detached from the aircraft. I then opened a ticket with PMDG and over time they discovered the problem and it was fixed in a later update.

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5 minutes ago, Terblanche said:

When I bought the B744 for FSX I had a problem that the landing lights did not work, or it will work on take-off but when I arrived they are gone. Then one day I saw on my Aivlasoft EFB screen on separate computer that there is a AI object right behind my aircraft following me around. When I land it somehow get detached from the aircraft. I then opened a ticket with PMDG and over time they discovered the problem and it was fixed in a later update.

Very interesting. I know PMDG use some ingenious workarounds to the limitations of the FSX/P3D code but a shadow aircraft is a new one!

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12 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

I'm running a 980Ti and it's just fine. 

Same here, I have a 970 and it's ok. Most of my low performance comes from having too much scenery loaded. For example NYCX with Imaginesim KLGA and FSDT JFK is allot of scenery to load when flying at 180 knots. 

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1 minute ago, warriorpilot said:

Same here, I have a 970 and it's ok. Most of my low performance comes from having too much scenery loaded. For example NYCX with Imaginesim KLGA and FSDT JFK is allot of scenery to load when flying at 180 knots.

... and I thought with P3D that is no problem anymore like it is with FSX that loads everything while P3D only loads the scenery where you are flying. Maybe I'm mistaken but that's what I read somewhere AND with the 64-bit it should not be a problem to fly from EDDF to EGLL while EHAM is loaded as well, and yet the amount of scenery loaded should then influence the overall FPS and not only when you switch lights on and off.

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Any scenery that hasn't been compiled with the new SDK might suffer issues when hit with dynamic lighting. I am not tech enough in relation to this, but i've seen a post somewhere by Rob Ainscough that mentions the issue.

When the light produced by dynamic lights hits a surface compiled with other than the new SDK, performance might suffer. I've seen this happen with some older airports i installed in V4. Either wait for an update from the developer (that probably used the old SDK from FS2002) or just put up with it.

Either way, this is not a PMDG issue.

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1 minute ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Either way, this is not a PMDG issue.

Then why the FPS drop when you sit at 37,000" over the ocean? And if it is a scenery 'problem' then there will be a drop in FPS with other 3rd party aircraft as well.

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I never experienced drops when flying, only when dynamic lights hit said surfaces and it's easily reproduceable (just turn on/off the lights).

I have no idea what's causing YOUR fps drops, but i'd hardly point this to PMDG. Maybe your hardware just reached the limit somehow in that situation? Water can be taxing on your system if it's kept on "ULTRA"... I don't know, just throwing possibilities here.

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You can't use SSAA with dynamic lighting on. Period. It sucks, but that's the situation right now. If we want to use this thing at night and have realistic illumination, you have to use MSAA. It's a step back from V3 in terms of anti-aliasing options. My suggestion: Make two graphics profiles. One for day flying that has DL checked OFF and AA set to use some level of SSAA. That will reduce shimmers. Create another profile for night flying that has DL ON and uses MSAA so that you get illumination without the FPS hit. 

 

Alex Pugh

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14 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

You can't use SSAA with dynamic lighting on. Period. 

 

Alex Pugh

That's funny because I'm using SSAAx2 with dynamic lighting just fine. Yeah there is a little fps drop but at x2 its hardly noticeable. 

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3 hours ago, Terblanche said:

As you can see from above, it's not so easy to just bring sliders down and or tweak the GPU ... maybe PMDG can advice on the recommended settings and/or investigate what it is with the QOTSII that hit the FPS for a home run when you switch on the lights. My gut tells me it has something to with the fact that the B744 has an AI-object for the lighting and that there is a tension/strain between the two. But I can be completely wrong.

This is not actually a fact. The P3D version doesn't use this.

4 hours ago, garrett_frank said:

I didn't imply that it was.

Asking for an option implies that there is a belief that it is possible. My response was to indicate that the provision of an option is not in the realm of possibility, from a practical point of view. It's technically possible to keep a PC cool by building it in a refrigerator, but the practicality of that move is very low.

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35 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

This is not actually a fact. The P3D version doesn't use this.

HUH?? I'm almost 99% sure I saw the "shadow AI object" behind me on the EFB screen in P3D4. Will have to make sure of the 1% doubt now. :blink:

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1 hour ago, Nuno Pinto said:

I have no idea what's causing YOUR fps drops, but i'd hardly point this to PMDG. Maybe your hardware just reached the limit somehow in that situation? Water can be taxing on your system if it's kept on "ULTRA"... I don't know, just throwing possibilities here.

Let me test some more tonight and make more detailed notes. As I said, at the moment P3D4 is a bit of frustration to me because of the stuttering and shimmering and to find the sweet-spot without having to tweak anything outside P3D4. None of my scenery, autogen, water sliders are at 100% at the moment and HDR lighting also turned OFF and only Dynamic Lighting ON ... [sigh]

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from my side.

MSAA is OK with dynamic lights on and actual lights switched on.

SSAA with lights switched on (landing lights) reaches 100% of my GPU (1080) and this stutters..

 

 

JM

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