Piotr007

P3D V4 Stopped enjoying it. Time to reconsider the options.

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Hi,

As this might be odd I stopped enjoying P3D V4 on my system. I am very unhappy of the performance I get with all the addons I've installed. I spent many hours in tweaking, testing and flying and trying to have fun. At some moments I had fun, but it quickly came down to one big bummer.

Scenery addons:

As soon I installed all the scenery addons I could get "supported" in my P3D V4, the problems became more and more apparent. The most apparent problem are the lag/stutter graces. It seems I have loaded up an extensive amount of payware scenery that for some reason ravage my CPU performance, I suspect. At times I get even 100% CPU load. This caues stutters and lag graces on final for example when approaching for landing. Very frustrating. I was too enthusiastic in adding all I could, just in the notion the OOM is gone so sky is not the limit anymore, just like it was advertised...

Wrong: there are still limits. The limits are the amound of scenery and more importantly the load a CPU can take when having all FSDT, Flytampa and some Aersoft and custom sceneries activated in conjunction with ORBX/FTX/HD Trees etc. They might be invisible if not near them, but the CPU seems to take the hit over the entire earth inside the sim!

So my next steps are:

- Get P3D stock scenery back.

- Remove all of the airports I am not using at the moment, only flying from departure to destination airport. Hopefully CPU loads will be within acceptable range to enjoy the sim again.

At this time I am maddened by tweaking, but I seemed to have overlooked one step. I am wanting too much too fast perhaps?!

 

Time to return to a stock sim. I am looking from there where to go next!

 

 

Oh my PC specs:

CPU: i7 6700K @ 4,5 ghz stable.

CPU cooling: Corsair H110i GTX

Mobo: MSI Z170A Gaming M5

PSU: Corsair CX750M

RAM: 32GB Corsair Dominator DDR4 @ XMP 3000MHZ

Graphics: MSI Geforce 1080 GTX 8GB GDDR5

HD: WD Green Caviar 1TB 7200 RPM

SSD1: 1 TB Samunsung EVO

SSD2: 480 GB Samsung

Running on Win 7 Professional Edition

 

I think to switch to Win 10 in near future (Q4 2017) and buying Coffee Lake 6-core CPU which fits on my LGA 1151. Thoughts for P3D V4?

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Piotr007 said:

I spent many hours in tweaking, testing

There's your problem. Stop poking it about!

  • Upvote 5

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11 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

There's your problem. Stop poking it about!

Hi Ron,

Yes you are right. But then I tweaked it into misery. Time to tweak it out of misery again.:biggrin:

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I have the same system as you but with a titanXp. It's IMHO not a high end computer anymore.

However it can run P3Dv4 perfectly and untweaked with most slides maxed out. If you can't help yourself not to tweak, I suggest the insim slides are all you need to tweak.

I also suggest you format your HD and start over. Then only add scenery that has V4 installers.

This means patience is now required (sit on your hands) until developers getting their products V4 ready.

Im amazed with V4 and couldn't be happier.

IM

  • Upvote 1

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From reading other post It has been said developers have been updating there installers to work with P3Dv4 but unless they start using the SDK and compiling planes and scenery the proper way will never get the full benefits that v4 has to offer. Sure it may install and be v4 compliant but is it really v4 ready. Too many shortcuts are being taken resulting in poor performance. Can anyone name one developer that actually used the LM SDK to properly export the way it's suppose too be?

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Peter

I had very annoying stutters on final, landing and taxiing. I turned off Airport Ground Traffic and it completely removed stutters from all the airports I've tried including KLAX with full UT Live.

If you haven't tried this already I hope it helps.

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I have a similar system to yours and my experience with V4 is completely opposite!!  Much more stable and smooth flight all around...especially much better at the add-on airports that I had stutter problems with in V3.  Like Ron said, I don't think it needs to be tweaked at all, you just have to get the sliders in the right spot.  Are you running with HT on?  I have had a much better experience with it off while running unlimited FPS.  Many of my stutter issues in the past with V3 were related to HT and trying to get the correct affinity mask setting.  Maybe try removing your addons and deleting your .cfg.  Try to get a smooth experience with default settings and then add things slowly. If you are using AI traffic, use a limiter!  Good luck!

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6 minutes ago, laserit said:

Peter

I had very annoying stutters on final, landing and taxiing. I turned off Airport Ground Traffic and it completely removed stutters from all the airports I've tried including KLAX with full UT Live.

If you haven't tried this already I hope it helps.

You are right about this one. It helps. Lag and stutter graces are far less.

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6 minutes ago, Flic1 said:

I have a similar system to yours and my experience with V4 is completely opposite!!  Much more stable and smooth flight all around...especially much better at the add-on airports that I had stutter problems with in V3.  Like Ron said, I don't think it needs to be tweaked at all, you just have to get the sliders in the right spot.  Are you running with HT on?  I have had a much better experience with it off while running unlimited FPS.  Many of my stutter issues in the past with V3 were related to HT and trying to get the correct affinity mask setting.  Maybe try removing your addons and deleting your .cfg.  Try to get a smooth experience with default settings and then add things slowly. If you are using AI traffic, use a limiter!  Good luck!

I am looking into all now. I am very confident it will be alright. But it needs a perfect balance. And balancing too much can do more harm than good in the end as always in simming.

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12 minutes ago, Iceman2 said:

I have the same system as you but with a titanXp. It's IMHO not a high end computer anymore.

However it can run P3Dv4 perfectly and untweaked with most slides maxed out. If you can't help yourself not to tweak, I suggest the insim slides are all you need to tweak.

I also suggest you format your HD and start over. Then only add scenery that has V4 installers.

This means patience is now required (sit on your hands) until developers getting their products V4 ready.

Im amazed with V4 and couldn't be happier.

IM

So what about a i9 processor or a coffee lake Hexa Core i7 in the near future? I should also look into AMD's Threadripper. Which one to choose, Intel is more expensive but I feel more safe with Intel. AMD on the other hand is quite cheap, but will it run as good as Intel and not run too hot on 5 ghz OC?

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No matter what I try, I cannot get rid of microstutters and small lag freezes at KJFk for example. All on stock scenery that is... 

Time to delete and rebuild my CFG I guess.

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That sounds frustrating, borderline maddening.

On the flip side, my system is meager in comparison - i7-3930 + GTX680 2GB.

I am currently running FTX Global, HD trees, and A2A aircraft with maxed-out autogen, buildings, mesh, textures, cloud shads and terrain shads. I am not using dynamic lighting.

My AA looks great without shimmers, and I get a very smooth stutter-free 20-30 fps over Los Angeles, which is about as dense as it gets.

Now, I don't have heavy airports, Vector, AS16, or REX installed yet, but I feel there is room to add this content if I dial back a few sliders. I will know soon enough.

It's really interesting how v4 is behaving differently across everyone's computers. Wish I had some advice other than - it still may be possible for you to find an acceptable sweet-spot without all of the tweaks. I learned my lesson the hard way with over-tweaking, using assistants, etc.

For me, the V4 upgrade is a clear improvement.

So far.

 

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I was able to get rid of stutters at heavy addon airports using vsync at 25 hz on my monitor with unlimited FPS.  If your monitor supports that or 30hz give that a try.  The only real change I have to make at heavier airports or with dense clouds is lower AA setting and I'll get good performance.  I'm still getting blurries on approach but it's smooth so it is probably just a matter of me having too high of settings for my system to handle but V4 is still new so I'm still experimenting.  I haven't made any tweaks besides adding in TML=30 to help with scenery loading and my advice is to forget about tweaking it or you'll drive yourself mad trying to find the perfect balance.  I did that on V4 and again on V4 time and time again and did more reinstalls than I can count.  In the end it made no difference honestly and I'm pretty happy with where I'm at now.

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50 minutes ago, Piotr007 said:

You are right about this one. It helps. Lag and stutter graces are far less.

Another heavy hitter is the Special Effects sliders. Setting them from max to medium gave me significant improvement.

If you make use of monitoring software such as http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html  you can see what effect the options have on your the main thread of your CPU and GPU. I notice that when my main thread or my GPU reach 100% utilization is when I see stutters.

I set my system up, where both the main thread of my CPU and GPU were averaging about 60-70% utilization  (to allow for spikes) at Vancouver BC using ORBX PNW, FSDT CYVR and UT Live. I get really smooth performance with very high settings @4k using Vsync@30hz frames set to unlimited.

My system is a 7700k @4.9, HT=on and a 1080ti

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Turn down settings....problem solved. 

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No reason why your system can't excel. If it excelled in P3Dv.1-3 or FSX it should excel with v4.  The first suggestion is that if you have high  supersampling (4X or 8X) and dynamic lighting doesn't matter your system you will pay a price in nightime flying particularly at payware airports.. Switch your settings to 8XMSAA or at most 2xSSAA. Textures down to 2048x2048.  If you have a cluttered HD then think of using only 1 drive for P3Dv4. It finally deserves it's own place given 64 bits. The latter is absolute heaven now.

 

i7-7700k 4.2 GHz, DEEPCOOL GAMMAXX 400 CPU Cooler 4 Heatpipes 120mm PWM Fan with Blue LED, ASRock 270 PRO4 MOBO, ZOTAC ampExtreme 1080 8GB, 16 GB DDR4 Ripjaws, Thermaltake Core V71 Case, RM850xCorsair psu, ADATA M.2 2280 240GB SATA III TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) WIndows 10 Pro, 2 TB Samsung and 3 TB WD HDs .

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I'm just suspecting you might have overloaded your sim in the context of....just add one thing at a time.  Ensure it works properly and has had no impact on the sims performance.

I'm going slow and easy a bit at a time. My sim is purring along so far.

I have Orbx stuff installed, some planes some other sceneries. So far perfect. I HAVE NOT ONE TWEAK.

My system specs are slightly less than yours.

Clean it off! Start over and slowly add stuff. I just suspect that some addons might not be "good performers" and then once you get them into your system one can't find out what is causing the problems as there might be several.

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This is why I was saying early on that it may be worth waiting to make the plunge, and so many people got on my case about it...

Now, we're all experiencing a vast-array of annoyances, setbacks and disappointments as we all get used to the idiosyncrasies of v4.  I really fault LM for this as they could have made more beta copies for developers.  This wasn't some super-secret spy program here, and they could have opened things up a little bit.  However, I also fault many developers who had no clue as to what it would take to make their products work in v4 and started putting out tentative timetables that could and still can not be met.  At the end of the day, we ended up a bare-bones stock product that will take months to customize and call our own, because some marketing geniuses failed to communicate with each-other and really dropped the ball on how it could have been released. 

That said, I get good performance, except around big airports, and I expect this.  I also think the eye-candy and lighting is much better in v4.  I also think that the quality of smoothness, and stuttering, is better than v3.  Even when I fly into dense areas, the stutters are annoying, but they are not as impairing as in v3.  Then, there's the OOM issue.  I avoided this when I knew I was going to be heading into VAS-intensive areas by saving the flight, restarting the sim and then reloading it.  It took about a minute and I was back up in the air.  Big deal.  Now VAS isn't a problem and I can fly and fly and fly.

I still think that I will be using v3 more than v4 for months, until everything I enjoy can be migrated into the new platform.  I mean there's only so much fun I can have with a 777 when my 737s and Buses are in the hangar in v3.  However, I'm also happy to use both to get the experience that I'm looking for. 

Be Buddhist about this...let it be.  It will take time.  Meanwhile, keep flying and enjoy.

John

 

 

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Yeah and make sure you aren't running the highest AA.  8xSSAA just kills my cpu.  Try 8x msaa (sort of shimmers) or 4x SSAA which is what I'm doing with my GTX970

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Affinity mask of 85 with my 7700k with hyper threading and fiber frame time fraction .05 works very well for me. With a GTX 980 I'm getting solid 30fps with pay ware airports and orbx scenery. 

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I hope that folks are starting with a vanilla p3d.cfg before tweaking anything.

Perhaps my system is more robust but I haven't tweaked anything and am getting great performance.

 

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18 minutes ago, 1st fltsimguy said:

I hope that folks are starting with a vanilla p3d.cfg before tweaking anything.

Perhaps my system is more robust but I haven't tweaked anything and am getting great performance.

 

As do I

 

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I don't know if this will help or not with some of you guys but when I first got P3Dv4 it ran like crap, and I mean crap, had stutters, just did not run good at all, but I noticed that it was my whole system, like a big CPU lag. Playing different games had the same lag. I started looking on YouTube for a fix and found this.

I did this and P3Dv4 runs so good right now, I love it, its perfect, and most of all smooth. I have most of all the available Orbx stuff installed (don't have anything of the EU area installed yet), the v4 of active sky and ASCA, some a2a planes and PMDG 747 and 777 and it runs good, way better then P3Dv3.

After I did what the video said to do then I put all the settings just on the P3D side to this.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k5ketw85idtxo8f/P3Dv4 Settings Chart.xlsx?dl=0  (and thank you to joepoway for putting this out, it helped).

I did a vatsim flight from Hong Kong to Seattle, about 13 hours with these settings and maybe a couple of setting turned up or on and it was a very good flight, no problems.

Not saying this will help you, I hope it does, but when I was about to give up on v4, did whats above, and now its great.

My system, I7 4790K at 4.0Hz, 980 gtx, 16 gigs of ram, 4K 43in Sony TV for a monitor.  

Piotr007, from your stats, your system should run P3Dv4 really good but I'm no computer wiz you might have a totally different problem, this is just what worked for me.

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V4 runs perfectly for me.

Also have a i7 6700K but a 1080ti running 4K. I use MSAA 2x because I have no shimmering issues whatsoever. I cannot see a difference between 8x MSAA and 2x MSAA, so i go with 2x.

Also: Turn down the cloud resolution in ASCA! Set them to 512.

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One of the biggest things about P3D that we all have been saying over and over is this - right out of the box P3D needs little or NO tweaking. That was true for V1 and is even truer for V4. I'm sorry but I do not see any logic in blaming LM for simple user error.

The OP did exactly what he was NOT supposed to do and asked in many places on these forums and continued to tweak. Now he is reaping the rewards. Piotr - you best bet is to uninstall, format and reinstall P3D and leave it alone. Take baby steps as you SLOWLY add things that are proven to be compatible. Your system should run P3D just fine - just don't get in it's way.

Vic

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