HighBypass

Bumpy Landing Airbus 380

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I think the landing is made more dramatic by the foreshortening effect of looking down the runway. Mind you I wonder what it was like sitting in the back rows... :blink:

 

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To see a large aircraft like that tossed around like a kite is amazing.  In all the years I've flown I've only been in one strong crosswind landing, in a puddle jumper coming into Philly, where they use a smaller runway at a 90 degree angle to the main runway and prevailing wind.  The pilot warned us we'd be coming in at an unusual angle.  I could see the approaching runway from the passenger window, that's how crabbed we were.  I felt him kick the rudder to line up just before landing, then felt the strong side to side swaying as he fought the crosswind down the runway as he decelerated.  Since I was an aviation geek at that time anyway and flew once a week as well, I wasn't overly concerned, just uncomfortable as my body strained against the swaying which is normal for that type of landing.  When I got out I estimated the crosswind at 20-25 knots, maybe more, quite strong and steady.

John

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49 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Mind you I wonder what it was like sitting in the back rows... :blink:

I think the cleaning crew will be spending a little extra time back there.:unsure:

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Mind you, don't all A380 seats come with tv screens where you can watch the onboard plane cameras? Top of the fin etc. Gives you some situational awareness :) I would have loved to have seen the footage on that sucker! :biggrin:

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I had a landing in Houston coming back from Paris on an Air France 777 that was similar to that, but thankfully not quite as bad.  I've only been scared once on landings and takeoffs and that was the time.  I happened to be watching on the cam which was mounted somewhere near the nose wheel, I think, and that sure gives a person a different perspective.  And actually, going over to Paris, the landing in Paris was not very relaxing either.  I didn't know if it was just bad luck or maybe the AF pilots.  I usually fly KLM.

Jeff

 

 

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Years ago when I was a logisitcs guy in the US Air Force I got to fly as a mission observer on LOGAIR run out of Kelly AFB TX to Columbus, Warner-Robbins, Hurlburt and then back to Kelly.  We got in to Robbins and overnighted because of the weather at Hurlburt Field in Florida.  Next morning we got out of Robbins fast because the weather was predicted to go "south" quickly down in Florida again.

As a Mission Observer I could ride in the cockpit of the L188 in the jump seat.  The Pilot gave me the "rules", one of which was no talking to the pilots below 10,000 feet.  Approaching Hurlburt the weather was getting worse and worse.  I could tell by their movements...and the aircraft movement...the pilots were fighting the weather.  We're low...really low, but I keep my mouth shut.  I'm looking out the windscreen and I don't see a runway, just trees ahead.  Can't take it any longer, I blurt out...against the rules..."where's the runway?"

The pilot calmly points out the left side window and there it is.  We're crabbing, flying almost sideways.  Just before we landed he kicked it hard left, we lined up and swoosh, we were down.  He turned and looked at me after we stopped and sternly said..."That's one!"  Then he smiled and said he didn't blame me, he would have said something as well if he was in the jump seat.

Randy

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That was some landing. The gear held up well...

That rudder movement - as violent as it was - reminded me of the airbus accident over NY some years ago which lost most of its rudder - wasn't the crew censured by Airbus for 'over use' of the pedals ?

I'm not criticising, but that rudder is huge, and that appeared a bit rough. (but obviously the circumstances made it necessary). It appeared to me that the conditions were borderline for a crosswind landing ?

Scary.

Thanks for the link.

Regards

Bill

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11 hours ago, BillCusick said:

.... that rudder is huge, ....

I guess a massive fat biffer of an aeroplane needs a massive rudder! :happy:

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Actually that must have been quite the jarring experience in the back of the plane. Those lateral forces were huge and must have cracked some heads and wet a few seats.

Kind regards,

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Cannot believe something this big can survive a landing like this!

Edited by Jim Young
Removed duplicate video
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15 hours ago, BillCusick said:

That rudder movement - as violent as it was - reminded me of the airbus accident over NY some years ago which lost most of its rudder - wasn't the crew censured by Airbus for 'over use' of the pedals ?

I'm not criticising, but that rudder is huge, and that appeared a bit rough. (but obviously the circumstances made it necessary). It appeared to me that the conditions were borderline for a crosswind landing ?

Scary.

Thanks for the link.

Regards

Bill

Yup, the Queens crash in 2001 was an Airbus A300-B4: American Airlines 587. It was caused when the co-pilot overused the rudder at speed. He had apparently been cautioned about his tendency to over use the rudder prior to that accident in check rides, but at the time American Airlines training had advocated coarse use of the rudder, suggesting it was okay in those circumstances (i.e. the aircraft flying through suspected wake turbulence), however, AA have since altered their training procedures to make pilots aware of the danger. If other pilot and ATC reports, weather and radar tracks are are to be believed, sadly, it is likely AA587 would have simply rode the turbulence out had the co-pilot not done anything at all, but he attempted to correct the aircraft deviations, using too much control input.

To be fair to the pilot however, it was perhaps not entirely his fault, unfortunately, a lot of pilots are unaware that full deflections of the rudder at higher speeds can put dangerously high side loads on the vertical stabiliser. Personally, I consider myself lucky that I had an instructor who warned me about that when I was learning to fly, which was long before the AA587 incident highlighted the issue, as it shows how knowledgable my instructor was; before he told me about that, the notion hadn't even occurred to me, so I don't find it surprising that some pilots don't know this even these days. Airbus did not put any sort of inhibitor on the A300's rudder pedals to prevent full defections happening at beyond safe full manuevering speeds, instead relying on pilots to know this is not something they should do. This didn't help either.

What made matters worse with flight 587 however, was the repeated rudder deflections from full left to full right at fairly high speed, which became akin to rocking a fence post stuck in the ground backwards and forwards to loosen it, i.e. one or two movements won't do much, but do that repeatedly and you will loosen the fence post and maybe even break it. It is this phenomenon which is exactly what happened to the lugs which held AA587's tail fin on. But the force generated would be very different at landing speeds on approach, you actually do need big rudder defections at those lower approach speeds the A380 would have been at in the video, in order to correct its course; there isn't as much airflow at that lower speed in order to grant as much rudder authority as AA587 would have had whilst accelerating up to 250 knots on a climb out after take off, which means there would not be anywhere near as much side load on the fin of that A380 as there would have been on AA587.

 

 

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It is 1.3 million pounds of aircraft, therefore the forces being thrown around is really impressive when you compare it to a 777 that weighs in the 300,000 pound region, or an A320 that is in the area of 140,000 pounds. This is a lot of mass and forces at play :cool:

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Drift it they said... OK  I said...

The title of my post in Hangar Chat with the same video. :happy: 

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I actually think that was a very good landing under the circumstances. Of course I don't know what the actual crosswind component was, but some things I do know is that there was a lot of gusting and there very obviously is a fairly severe wind gradient, as evidenced by the varying wind nose on the microphone and the intermittent movement of the distant treetops, which are probably a good two and a half miles away at least, yet you can still see them being blown about significantly in all kinds of different ways.

The foreshortening effect of the zoomed video from that angle probably contributes to it looking like there is a lot of violent movement, although clearly it was a bit of a fight to get the thing tracking straight. However, as every pilot knows, it is the proper procedure to get a bit more speed on when you know you are coming down through a wind gradient so you don't run out of airspeed when you get low down in the lee of some trees on the peri track or whatever. And the fact that he or she (unlikely with Emirates I know), has not used full flaps in order to keep the throttle response a bit better, which is another clue as to the dodgy wind on approach. The touchdown is right on the money in where the mains hit the runway, but unfortunately the pilot has left it a bit on the late side to kick the yaw out, although that could have easily been because the wind dropped in the last 20 feet of the descent, which would be more a case of bad luck than bad piloting, and even then, there is no pod strike or anything which looks like it would really have caused any damage, those things are built to occasionally come down hard. It happens.

As they say, any landing you can walk away from... And any pilot who says he or she has never made a less than brilliant landing is either a liar or just hasn't had enough hours yet.  :biggrin:

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On 10/7/2017 at 8:30 AM, HighBypass said:

The title of my post in Hangar Chat with the same video.

I have merged the videos and moved your topic to the FlightSim and Aviation video forum.  Please post your videos in the proper forum in the future and duplications like this will not happen.

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Thanks for the clarification Jim. I mistakenly thought it was more suited to Hangar Chat, but indeed it is a video about aviation. :blush:

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Wow, the pilot was sure dancing on the rudder pedals!

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"Walked away from another one, Simon..." :)

PIC was so busy wiping the seat he completely forgot to clean up the aircraft wing as he taxied home!

Co-incidentally the Emirates A380 driver that landed us at NZAA on Monday morning got the career-best award for the Hard Landing.

There was no wind shear to speak of, I was watching the approach from the onboard tail camera and thought: Jeez feller, there go the piano keys, when are you going to decide to put it down??  He did eventually, and it made my teeth click.

Try making your teeth click by bobbing on the chair as you read this and you get the idea. Them Airbusses must be quite strong.

 

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The winds were tossing around that A380 like a feather.  Landings like that are very uncomfortable for the passengers, hard on the hips.  Looks like the pilot was just on the edge there, just at the aircraft's crosswind limits.

John

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Looks like quite a stable approach in a strong crosswind from the right, with the pilot kicking in some left rudder just before touchdown to straighten out the crab and then a larger amount of left rudder again immediately after touchdown as he probably felt the nose was swinging to the right in the crosswind. Unfortunately it seems he overdone the rudder a bit the second time which resulted in the series of swings to the left and right. As this was a named storm the winds were almost certainly very strong and, when you consider the huge surface area that the big A380 tail presents, the weathercock effect of any strong crosswind must be considerable. Although I might not have very much liked being a passenger near the tail during that landing, I think the video probably shows commendable skills by the pilot flying in conditions which I suspect must have been very close to the aircraft's crosswind limit. Kudos to the strength of the A380 airframe too - just look at those tailplanes shaking!

Bill

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Notice how the clip is speeded up from touch down to exaggerate the left and right movement.

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