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P3D v4: AI Traffic Seperation

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Hello,

Back in the Days with FS9 / FSX I had this incredible useful Program called AI Smooth, which made sure that the AI Traffic went, as the name implies, "smooth" and that not like 10 Planes fly the Approach at the same time.

Does anyone know if there is a similiar Tool available for Prepar3D V4?

I own UT Live and London Heathrow for example looks like this :/

Untitled.png

Thank you!

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None that I am aware of, I am building one thought :wink: check my website for more info.

Best Regards,

Simbol

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12 minutes ago, simbol said:

None that I am aware of, I am building one thought :wink: check my website for more info.

Best Regards,

Simbol

Will do, thanks for answering!

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You could try Nico’s Live Traffic ...

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Definitely would be nice to have a traffic manager in P3D. I miss AISmooth!

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Me too, in hence why I am developing a fix.

S.

  • Upvote 2

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Hi Folks,

AI Controller posted above is one slick piece of a kit in V3 - - - as stated - don't know if it works in V4...

It actually "flies" the AI Aircraft instead of using slew...

Regards,
Scott

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1 hour ago, chansen said:

I used this on P3D 3.4 havent tried it yet on 4.1

 

 

Yeah Version 2 was great because the AI flew the up to date SIDS and STARS and animations were great.  BUT something in the taxiing for version 2 got jacked up lots of going across the grass and missing turns etc.  I went back to 1.4B because the nice taxiing is mostly what i wanted to see. 

I would prefer both though :)  

Simbol will make it happen! 

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AI Controller 2.0 sounds interesting, but I note that default ATC instructions to AI planes are "switched off" when AI Controller takes over. That removes quite a lot of the realism, although I guess that not having to listen to the ground controller ask an AI plane to "stop taxi/continue taxi/stop taxi/continue taxi".....ad nauseam is a rather big bonus :wink:

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2 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

AI Controller 2.0 sounds interesting, but I note that default ATC instructions to AI planes are "switched off" when AI Controller takes over. That removes quite a lot of the realism, although I guess that not having to listen to the ground controller ask an AI plane to "stop taxi/continue taxi/stop taxi/continue taxi".....ad nauseam is a rather big bonus :wink:

Correct, that is why I never used it.

My objective is to deliver something that allows end users to still heard the ATC talking to the AI even when I am controlling certain behaviours, things like back tracking the runway! hell I hate that!, or things like long queues on the runway to take off! AI planes will have runway slots like in RW operations, I am also planning to address the stupid landing taxi speed and proper runway exit procedures (use proper fast exits or at least the nearest exit but ahead not behind you), and of course proper landing separation, and other things that have been annoying me for over 15 years of flying simulation experience.

I am planning to discuss with Navigraph to obtain a custom database for it so I can handle runway procedures accordingly.

Regards,

Simbol

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That sounds like a very interesting prospect, Simbol. I look forward to it!

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Super Traffic Board (http://www.supertrafficboard.com/) has an excellent Flight Control tool that enforces a minimum separation on final. Most of the parameters are adjustable; but basically a conflicting arrival will be deleted at a certain point and placed at an empty gate.  By placing the decision point on about a 6 mile final, you typically never see any aircraft getting deleted and then they are placed at a gate as far away from your position as possible so they can fly their outbound leg.  With arrival rates being much lower then departure rates in any ESP sim, it's probably the best way to prevent excessive go-arounds while also not running out of departures as time progresses.

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46 minutes ago, MadDog said:

Super Traffic Board (http://www.supertrafficboard.com/) has an excellent Flight Control tool that enforces a minimum separation on final. Most of the parameters are adjustable; but basically a conflicting arrival will be deleted at a certain point and placed at an empty gate.  By placing the decision point on about a 6 mile final, you typically never see any aircraft getting deleted and then they are placed at a gate as far away from your position as possible so they can fly their outbound leg.  With arrival rates being much lower then departure rates in any ESP sim, it's probably the best way to prevent excessive go-arounds while also not running out of departures as time progresses.

Could you post a picture where this is configured? I own Supertraffictboard and my appreciation is that it doesn't space traffic for approach, all it does is removing the AI traffic from the approach and park it at the gate, although this works to clear the conflict traffic during your approach is far from ideal as it is unrealistic and do not provide the solution what I am looking for.

Best Regards,

Simbol

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2 minutes ago, simbol said:

Could you post a picture where this is configured? I own Supertraffictboard and my appreciation is that it doesn't space traffic for approach, all it does is removing the AI traffic from the approach and park it at the gate, although this works to clear the conflict traffic during your approach is far from ideal as it is unrealistic and do not provide the solution what I am looking for.

I'm not near my sim computer at the moment, so I can't post a screenshot; but the settings should be pretty easy to find in the default UI.  I agree... the STB solution is not ideal; but right now it's the best we've got.  Believe me, if you can produce an app that properly slows down, sequences, and spaces AI arrivals, I will be the first one in line to purchase it!  I wouldn't mess with departures too much though - departure queues are actually very realistic.  If you need any real-world expertise for your app; let me know - I was an approach controller for 15 years, so I know a little bit about setting up a final.

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1 minute ago, MadDog said:

I'm not near my sim computer at the moment, so I can't post a screenshot; but the settings should be pretty easy to find in the default UI.  I agree... the STB solution is not ideal; but right now it's the best we've got.  Believe me, if you can produce an app that properly slows down, sequences, and spaces AI arrivals, I will be the first one in line to purchase it!  I wouldn't mess with departures too much though - departure queues are actually very realistic.  If you need any real-world expertise for your app; let me know - I was an approach controller for 15 years, so I know a little bit about setting up a final.

I will contact you for BETA testing when required.

In terms of departures, I disagree a bit as it depends of the traffic levels configured by users, the problem is that the simulator injects the AI too quickly and suddenly you find lots of planes that need to take off withing the first 20 minutes that you started your simulation, if this happens on a busy airport as EGLL, EGKK, EDDF  plus the madness of the go-around you find super long queues to take off which are unrealistic, surely ground control never authorise planes to startup and taxi to the runway when there are already 10 planes or more waiting for take off on such runway!

Best Regards,

Simbol

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10 minutes ago, simbol said:

surely ground control never authorise planes to startup and taxi to the runway when there are already 10 planes or more waiting for take off on such runway!

That depends... if the runway is only used for departures, a queue of 10 wouldn't be a problem.  If it's a mixed-use runway, and those departures need to be slotted in between a bunch of arrivals, then I agree that a bit of metering is definitely appropriate.  That's another factor to keep in mind for your app... arrival spacing can be much tighter to "landing-only" runways.  Mixed-use runways will need increased arrival spacing to create gaps for the departures.

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In departures I would like to see quicker runway lineup especially large aircrafts and perhaps rolling takeoffs. The lack of these almost makes impossible the use of single/mix mode runways.

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1 minute ago, him225 said:

In departures I would like to see quicker runway lineup especially large aircrafts and perhaps rolling takeoffs. The lack of these almost makes impossible the use of single/mix mode runways.

I know.. We will find a solution don't worry.

Simbol

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Yup, expedite and without delay are two commands that do not exist in the minds of AI pilots!

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Yes, it would actually be preferable if ATC instructed a departing aircraft to "line up and wait" (or "taxi into position, and hold") as soon as a landing aircraft has passed the threshold. Waiting for the landing aircraft to clear the runway usually ends up with another AI plane being cleared to land before any aircraft on the ground gets a chance to depart! In my opinion, forcing an AI plane to "go around" is much better than having ridiculously long queues of aircraft blocking taxiways amd aprons that arriving aircraft need to access.

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35 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Yes, it would actually be preferable if ATC instructed a departing aircraft to "line up and wait" (or "taxi into position, and hold") as soon as a landing aircraft has passed the threshold. Waiting for the landing aircraft to clear the runway usually ends up with another AI plane being cleared to land before any aircraft on the ground gets a chance to depart! In my opinion, forcing an AI plane to "go around" is much better than having ridiculously long queues of aircraft blocking taxiways amd aprons that arriving aircraft need to access.

Can't do that until the ESP ATC SDK capabilities are improved, for FSX and FSX-SE there is no hope, for PD3 there is some hope for the future but not available yet.

The only current solution is to space the incoming traffic accordingly to allow planes to takeoff with plenty of time, there are other problems were AI has to back track the runway to line up and take off, EHAM runway 06 operations is an example, departing traffic will hold short at S1 but instead of taking off from there they need to taxi to the beginning of the runway while AI traffic is coming to land, it is madness. Under such circumstances given with the current SDK capabilities the only solution is to give "Extra time" to departing traffic by spacing the arrival traffic further away from the ILS marker and create dynamic gaps that would allow planes to take off and land giving a nice flow of arrivals and departures, I can measure how long does it take to any plane to line up and takeoff for any particular runway and then use that information to generate the gaps accordingly.

For example:

3 Lands
***big gap
Two take off
** medium gap
2 lands
** Medium gap
1 takeoff
*** big gap
3 Lands,
repeat..

It is all about how good your logic can be to move around the current SDK stupid limitations.

Best Regards,

Simbol

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4 hours ago, simbol said:

Correct, that is why I never used it.

My objective is to deliver something that allows end users to still heard the ATC talking to the AI even when I am controlling certain behaviours, things like back tracking the runway! hell I hate that!, or things like long queues on the runway to take off! AI planes will have runway slots like in RW operations, I am also planning to address the stupid landing taxi speed and proper runway exit procedures (use proper fast exits or at least the nearest exit but ahead not behind you), and of course proper landing separation, and other things that have been annoying me for over 15 years of flying simulation experience.

I am planning to discuss with Navigraph to obtain a custom database for it so I can handle runway procedures accordingly.

Regards,

Simbol

Wow! Do you really think what is on your list is achievable? If so this would be as groundbreaking as 64 bit I'd say. Also wonder if it was doable why had anyone not tried it before? 

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