23 hours ago, Raging Bull said:

 

And you’re the kinda of person Bill Gates would’ve loved. I’ve got some sand to sell you. Much better then the sand you have already. 

 

 

And I love him.  We might still in buggies if the the car weren't invented!  After all, they worked!

Edited November 17, 20187 yr by spilok

8 hours ago, FalconAF said:

The reality with nVidia GPU drivers is that their updates are made mostly for SPECIFIC reasons concerning new game releases or game updates, etc.  And sometimes their drivers are updated for Operating System reasons (like a new Windows related update) and/or hardware reasons.  The "LIST" of reasons are included with each new driver release, but most people just arbitrarily do the update without even reading the list to find out if it's needed for them.  If none of the reasons are specific to your hardware or OS...or even MORE relevant to us as P3D users...if nothing listed is specific to P3D...you are most likely experiencing a placebo effect in whatever "improvements" you perceive in P3D.

OR...….

I've lost count of how many times I've "updated" a user's GPU drivers using the SAME version of the drivers they already had installed (without their knowledge I was installing the SAME driver version they already had).  They were "AMAZED" at how much it improved their PC's performance and "looks".  Of course, that was because their lack of user maintenance on their computer had resulted in their current drivers either getting corrupted or their computer was just plain "bloated" after a while.

Older nVidia drivers will work just as well for P3D as the most current drivers will...depending on the individual user's computer setup.  Way too many people just don't understand that concept.

"Newer" is not always "Better".  And in many cases, not even "Necessary".

Though there is some truth in this, it is also true that the changes detailed in the release notes are not generally complete--they list the major changes, but many smaller changes are often not listed.

Also, if you are using a new-ish video card, the releases often include bug fixes and optimizations targeted specifically at the newest hardware, where the driver modules for older established hardware contained in the unified installer may not have been changed at all.  So upgrading to the latest driver if you have a 2080Ti may be in your interest regardless of the listed changes in the release notes, and if you're using a 980, maybe not so much.

I don't think there's a good one-size-fits-all philosophy on chasing the latest drivers...there are potential upsides and downsides regardless of which side of the argument you come down on.

Regards

On 11/15/2018 at 1:31 PM, fppilot said:

I'm like Bert! I just checked for the first time in a long long time and I am on 388.13 and doing just fine.  If it ain't broke.....

Well for me, and I am sure other simmers as well, we use our rigs for newer games as well.  Running the older drivers becomes no longer possible, so then this type of thread can be helpful in that you may not notice any improvement with P3D, but they didn't introduce any problems either.

44 minutes ago, exeodus said:

Well for me, and I am sure other simmers as well, we use our rigs for newer games as well.  Running the older drivers becomes no longer possible, so then this type of thread can be helpful in that you may not notice any improvement with P3D, but they didn't introduce any problems either.

OK,  that I can understand

19 hours ago, spilok said:

And I love him.  We might still in buggies if the the car weren't invented!  After all, they worked!

 

If only the difference for new drivers was the same as your poorly conceived anaolgy, then we would all update, 

Instead it’s the same as going from a 4 door 6-cylinder Chevy to a 4-door 6-cylinder Ford. Same same but different. But Gates will make you believe it’s a new Ferrari that runs on air and it’s the answer to all your prayers. 

One of the worlds biggest con men, and no surprise, one of the richest. 

AND I'm sure you're enjoying his technology as we speak.  Rich is not a bad thing.  The rich hire people and the rich give to worthy causes.  Bill Gates has given HALF of his fortune to people who need it.  Do your research.

Stan

Correct - he said he would do that in his 30's which is another reason I stuck by him and MS.

Cheers
bs

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:57 AM, OldFlyboy said:

Duhh….What's a "driver"? 😉

is what  you hit  the little  white  ball  around  the park😀

8 hours ago, exeodus said:

Well for me, and I am sure other simmers as well, we use our rigs for newer games as well.  Running the older drivers becomes no longer possible, so then this type of thread can be helpful in that you may not notice any improvement with P3D, but they didn't introduce any problems either.

yep  was  wondering  why dcs  hornet  was  always crashing   using the  hornet, than upgraded  to the latest  driver  and  now  have  no issues

No real differences (or problems) here in a GTX 1080 with P3Dv4 from 411.xx.  Don’t see a need to revert.

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:16 AM, FalconAF said:

The reality with nVidia GPU drivers is that their updates are made mostly for SPECIFIC reasons concerning new game releases or game updates, etc.  And sometimes their drivers are updated for Operating System reasons (like a new Windows related update) and/or hardware reasons. 

😎

 

Do people actually READ the posts they reply to BEFORE they reply to them?

As I said, the nVidia drivers are updated for 3 main reasons:

1. A "game" update.

2. An Operating System update.

3.  A hardware update.

Geez!  I would hope if somebody bought a brand new state-of-the-art GPU they WOULD update their 2-year old drivers for it.  🙄

But this is a P3D flight simulator forum.  Saying everybody ELSE "needs" to update their drivers because YOU needed to update them for your Need For Speed or First Person Shoot 'Em Up game is really silly.

1 hour ago, FalconAF said:

As I said, the nVidia drivers are updated for 3 main reasons:

1. A "game" update.

2. An Operating System update.

3.  A hardware update

 

4.  To fix driver bugs following the releases for 1-3 above.

 

15 hours ago, w6kd said:

4.  To fix driver bugs following the releases for 1-3 above.

 

True.  But if the user's previous driver wasn't acting "buggy" to begin with (which means any "bugs" in it weren't applicable to THEIR computer usage), would you STILL recommend they upgrade just because there was a new driver release?  For none of the 4 REQUIRED reasons listed above?  If I recommended (or did) that in my 40 years of IT experience/employment, my employer would have rightfully fired me for incompetence (or sent me to Leavenworth after a Courts Martial).

Nobody needs to update drivers "just because there is a new one available".  That recommendation never has been accurate.  And it's what caused unknowledgable Windows users so much angst when Windows 10 included the "automatic update all drivers" fiasco.  Microsoft included that "feature" simply because MOST home computer users don't use their computers for things like WE do in our flight sim community.  But those same people could have ALWAYS just turned the individual driver updates OFF if they took the time to LEARN how to do it within the OS.  The ability was always there to allow Windows itself to update, without automatically updating the GPU drivers.  And there are STILL people posting in our forums who don't seem to know how to do that with Windows 10.  They blame the Operating System for a fault, when it is really the user who hasn't learned how to use the OS properly for what they want it to do based on how they are using their own computer.

If you are only running "games" or self-contained "apps made for Windows" on your computer, you can let Windows update all your drivers for you and you won't normally experience any problems.  NOT so when you are doing the kinds of things we do with our flight sims, tons of complex interacting addons for them, and the plethora of different computer setups we use with our sims (stand alone, networked, etc).  People need to learn when they really need to update their drivers...and when they don't...when using our "home" computers with the flight sim software WE use on them.

And my apologies if anything I said upsets anybody.  But if a flight sim user comes to a flight sim forum seeking "education", what they are told should be factual.

 

Edited November 21, 20187 yr by FalconAF

A Court Martial?  That's a little melodramatic, innit?  Can't say I ever contemplated sending anyone to a Court Martial for a bad driver installation...  :-S

Fact is, several of the big Windows 10 updates, even with the automatic driver updates turned off, have still installed drivers that caused problems, re-enabled conflicting devices/drivers like nVidia HD audio, etc.  Most folks that use Windows are not IT professionals, nor should they have to be.  But even some of those that ARE (gotta love them caps) have posted problems about Win 10 driver update issues.

FWIW, Win 10 has not ALWAYS (there's them caps again) allowed users to opt out of (only some) automatic driver updates--that option was added in the 1607 update, and Microsoft's own docs say that even that will not prevent hardware drivers from being installed automatically regardless of the settings if those driver updates are embedded in critical/security updates or the dreaded forced semi-annual "feature updates". 

See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/waas-configure-wufb#exclude-drivers-from-quality-updates

So the forced driver update issue is nowhere near as nice and simple and clean as you make it out to be...there's still plenty of cause for angst for knowedgeable users and neophytes alike.

Anyway, you make some good points about the potential pitfalls of a "gotta get the latest update" mindset, but it gets lost in your rather harsh and holier-than-thou criticism of folks that don't have a professional knowledge of Windows system administration.

Regards

Bob Scott, Colonel, USAF (ret)

I think if you don't want to upgrade your driver....then you shouldn't.  That's the best thing about living in a free country.  For me, I enjoy exploring the new technology as it occurs, because I CAN ALWAYS GO BACK.   The latest drivers have eliminated any stutters for me, and give me great FPS.  So, if you're getting the same and you're very cautious about your system, your settings, or whatever, just stay where you are.   The drivers are free, and I've never been burned by upgrading.  But then....that' my experience.

Stan